翻译：hardstick 校订：hardstick
Right. It's that. 没错。是这个。
Where is her photos? 照片放在哪里呢？
Where did I put them? 我把它们放在哪儿了？
I used to have this all organized. 我一般把这个都整理好的。
And now... 而现在...
Okay, let me see. 好吧，让我看看。
This is my mother as a young woman with her friends. 这是我母亲年轻时和她的朋友们。
This is the back of the mansion 她后面的这座宅邸，
where she lived,just out of Shanghai. 就是她在上海时住的。
Okay, so... 好吧，那就...
In my office is a time capsule. 在我的办公室里，就是一个浓缩时代的胶囊。
Seven large,clear plastic bins 有七个大的透明塑料箱子，
safeguarding frozen moments in time, 守护着凝聚的时光，
a past that began before my birth. 可以追溯到我出生之前。
《往昔在何处》 一个作者的回忆，出版于2017年
During the writing of this book, 在我写作这本书时，
I delved into the contents... 我深入研究了这些东西...
memorabilia, letters, photos,and the like... 收藏品，信件，照片，和相关的...
and what I found had the force of glaciers calving. 能让我找到一中解开冰封的力量。
I am not the subject matter of mothers and daughters, 我不是在写母女之间的主题，
or Chinese culture,or immigrant experience 或者中国文化，或者移民经历的主题，
that most people cite as my domain. 那些在我的领域中，被大部分人引用了。
I am a writer compelled by 我是一名被潜意识中的
a subconscious neediness to know, 求知欲所驱使的作家，
which is different from a need to know. 这不同于，应需要而去获知。
The latter can be satisfied with information. 后者仅满足于获得信息。
The former is a perpetual state of uncertainty 前者是一种永远不确定的状态，
and a tether to the past. 是对往昔的记挂。
翻译：hardstick 校订：hardstick
《喜福会》 作者：谭恩美
谭恩美：无意的回忆
You know, when you're writing, 你知道，当你在写作的时候，
I think you're naturally going through 我认为你会很自然地经历
some kind of subconscious philosophical construct, 某种潜意识的哲学建构，
your own cosmology, 你自己的宇宙观，
how the world is put together, 世界是如何组成的，
and how events happen, 事件是如何发生的，
and what's related,what's coincidental. 什么是相关的，什么是巧合。
Okay. 好吧。
It's not as though I want to change the past. 我并不是想要改变过去。
It's really trying to understand 它真正试图理解
how these things come together to bring you where you are. 这些东西是如何结合在一起，把你带到你现在的位置上的。
If you want to visit the overflow crowd 如果你想与人满为患的观众交流，
or if we've hit your time where you need your down time... 或者我们已经到了，该让你休息的时间了…
- Whatever you want. - No. -随你们的便。 -不。
It's whatever you want, actually. 其实是随你的便。
I often think I'm just dreaming my life. 我常常认为，我只是在梦想自己的人生。
You know, I've really...there've been so many times 你知道，我真的…有那么多次
I've nearly died... 我几乎要死了…
car accidents or whatever. 不是车祸，就是其他什么。
Maybe something really happened, 也许真的发生了什么事，
and I've been unconscious or in a coma all these years, 我昏迷了许多年，
and I've dreamt this life up. 我一直幻想着这样的生活。
Please join me in welcoming Amy Tan. 请和我一起欢迎谭恩美。
What I'd like to do tonight 今晚我想做的是
is tell you what kind of experiences went into me 告诉你们，是什么样的经历
to propel myself into writing. 促使我开始写作。
A lot of people think,well, you know from the... 很多人认为，嗯，你知道从…
My father was the oldest of 12, 我父亲是12个孩子中最大的，
and he became an engineer. 他成为了一名工程师。
Being the oldest, my father had the most responsibility, 作为家中最大的孩子，我的父亲承担着最大的责任，
but as it turns out,he was also the most handsome, 但事实证明，他也是最英俊、
the most articulate,the best English. 最能言善辩、英语最好的人。
Many women would have loved him, 很多女人都会喜欢他，
but he chose my mother. 但他选择了我母亲。
This is 1959. 这是在1959年。
Here we are having a carefree moment. 我们在这里享受无忧无虑的时光。
The family goes off into the future. 这家人去了未来。
In this shot, 在这张中，
that's my little brother,and that's me. 那是我的弟弟，这是我。
I have fond memories of my mom playing piano. 我有妈妈弹钢琴的美好回忆。
She would play Mozart,Beethoven, Bach. 她会演奏莫扎特，贝多芬，巴赫。 （弟弟：约翰.谭）
She was brilliant. 她是很聪明的。
They really wanted us to be 他们真的想让我们
engrossed in the American value, 沉浸在美国的价值观中，
and that's why I don't have an accent. 这就是为什么我没有口音。
They really wanted to be perfect Americans, 他们真的想成为完美的美国人，
but I know later in years,they also wanted 但我后来知道，他们也想
to make sure that we understood 确保我们了解
where the Chinese culture came from, 中国文化的来源，
our heritage,and what was respected. 我们的遗产，以及什么是被尊重的。
This is me on my fourth birthday. 这是我四岁生日的照片。
She's my best friend to this day, 她直到今天都是我最好的朋友，
the one at the end, Sandy. 最后那个，是桑迪。
Her mother and father were members 她的父母都是
of the original Joy Luck Club. 喜福会的会员。
好友：桑迪.布雷纳。
All my parents' siblings were in China, 我父母的兄弟姐妹都在中国，
so I always considered Amy and her siblings to be my cousins. 所以我一直认为，恩美和她的兄弟姐妹是我的堂兄妹。
The Joy Luck Club was formed by a few couples, 喜福会是由几对中国人
all Chinese, who decided 组建的，他们决定要
they wanted to be an investment group. 成为一个投资团体。
They would pick stocks,review them, 他们会挑选股票，评估它们，
and then they would socialize afterwards. 然后进行社交活动。
Mostly women played Mahjong. 大多数女性打麻将。
The men preferred to play cards. 男人们更喜欢打牌。
Then, about midnight,they would have a feast. 然后，大约在午夜，他们会有一个宴会。
We would love it as children, 我们会像孩子一样喜欢的，
you'd get to stay up late, 你可以熬夜，
get to see our aunties and uncles. 可以看到我们的叔叔阿姨。
What I remember is there's this comfort level 我记得和这样的人在一起
of being with like people, 有一种舒适的感觉，
especially for my mom who grew up in Shanghai. 尤其是对我在上海长大的妈妈来说。
Auntie Daisy, Amy's mom,was also from Shanghai. 黛西阿姨，恩美的妈妈，也是上海人。
I can imagine how comforting that would feel. 我能想象那会是多么令人欣慰。
I loved Amy's dad, Uncle John. 我爱恩美的爸爸，约翰叔叔。
He had a really warm smile, 他有一个非常温暖的微笑，
really warm and welcoming demeanor. 非常热情和欢迎的举止。
My father's avocation was the ministry, 我父亲的副业是牧师，
and it was my mother who made him quit the ministry 是我母亲让他辞去牧师工作的，
because it was a life of poverty. 因为那是一种贫穷的生活。
He went back to his former occupation 他回到了以前从事的
in engineering. 工程行业。
He worked seven days a week. 他一周工作七天。
My mother worked as well. 我的母亲也工作。
He also was going to school 他还在上学，
and getting a master's degree, 并获得了硕士学位，
and in his spare time, 在业余时间，
he was still substitute preaching. 他仍然在从事布道副业。
Auntie Daisy was a spitfire. 黛西阿姨是一个火爆脾气。
She was small,she spoke rapidly. 她个子矮小，语速很快。
I could hear her voice,like, "Amy, ah..." 我能听到她的声音，好像在说，“恩美，啊…”
With this furrowed brow. 还皱着眉头。
This is a mother who would tell me things like, 这位母亲会告诉我这样的话:
"You should never let anyone tell you “你不应该让任何人告诉你
who you should be or what you should do." 应该成为什么样的人，或者你应该做什么。”
"You should never let anyone talk down to you." “你不应该让别人居高临下地对你说话。”
"You should never feel you have to get married “如果你不想结婚，你永远不应该
if you don't wanna get married." 觉得你必须结婚。”
"And no one should tell you you must have a baby, “没有人应该告诉你，你必须要一个孩子，
not your husband,not your mother-in-law, 你的丈夫、你的婆婆、
not your friends." 你的朋友都不能。”
She said, "But you should have a good job 她说:“但你应该有一份好工作，
because if you do get married and your husband is mean, 因为如果你结婚了，你的丈夫很刻薄，
you can leave him immediately without a question." 你可以马上离开他，不需要问任何问题。”
My mother had other advice like that, 我妈妈还有其他的建议，
like crossing the street. 比如过马路。
A lot of parents look both ways, you know. 你知道的，很多父母都是朝两面看。
My mother did the look both ways, 我妈妈确实也朝两边看，
but she said, "You don't look,maybe a car comes, 但是她会说，“假如你不看，可能就有一辆汽车开来，
smash you flat like a sand dab, 把你碾压成比目鱼，
both eyes on one side of your face." 这样，你的两只眼睛就长在你脸的一侧了。”
You never forget after that, 从那以后，你就永远不会忘记，
you never forget. 永远不会忘记。
I remember this fear of shame. 我记得这种耻辱的恐惧。
When it was my birthday,I was so afraid 我生日的时候，我很害怕
my mother would do something like 我妈妈会做一些东西，
bring Chinese food. 比如中国菜之类的。
And I remember being relieved 我还记得当她带来
when she brought the requisite cupcakes. 必要的纸杯蛋糕时，我如释重负。
My father was an amateur photographer 我父亲是一个业余摄影师，
and he liked to pose people. 他喜欢给人们摆姿势。
Posed, posed. 摆姿势，摆姿势。
He was a good photographer. 他是个好摄影师。
See how they loved my older brother, 看看他们多爱我的哥哥，
the golden child. 那个阳光少年。
They were constantly comparing me and my brother, Peter. 他们总是拿我和我哥哥彼得作比较。
He was always doing well. 他总是做得很好。
He skipped a grade,he was independent, 他跳过了一个年级，他独立，
and polite, and behaved. 有礼貌，举止得体。
And they would say, why can't you be more like Peter? 他们会说，你为什么不能更像彼得呢?
I loved my brother, Peter.He was my hero. 我爱我的哥哥，彼得。他是我的英雄。
He was the person who taught me so many different things. 他教会了我很多不同的东西。
And he never made himself to be superior. 他从不让自己高人一等。
But I really sensed it, 但我真的感觉到了，
especially from my father. 尤其是从我父亲那里。
This past year, 在过去的一年里，
while examining the contents of those boxes, 当我检查这些盒子里的东西时，
I was gratified to learn that many of my childhood memories 我很高兴地得知，我童年的许多记忆
were largely correct. 基本上是正确的。
But there were also shocking discoveries 但也有一些关于我父母的
about my mother and father, 令人震惊的发现，
including a little white lie they told me when I was six. 包括我六岁时他们对我撒的一个善意的小谎。
When I was in the first grade, 当我读一年级的时候，
the woman came to our school, 一位女士来到我们学校，
took me into this little room, 把我带到一个小房间里，
gave me, I don't know, 给我一个，我不知道叫什么，
she probably called them puzzles or something 她可能叫它们“拼图”或者别的什么，
because I was a little kid. 因为我还是个小孩子。
About a few weeks later, 大约几周后，
I came home from school, 我从学校回到家，
and there she was in the living room, 看到她在客厅里，
and she was talking to my mom and dad. 和我的父母说话。
And then the woman left. 然后那个女人走了。
And my parents said to me, they were all excited and they said, 我的父母对我说，他们都很兴奋，
you know, you took this test,and the lady said 他们说，你知道吗，你参加了这个测试，那位女士对我们说，
to us you are smart enough to be a doctor. 你足够聪明，可以成为一名医生。
You are going to be a doctor. 你将成为一名医生。
So that's how my career was decided, 这就是我职业生涯的决定，
on the basis of a test. 基于一个测试。
Now I was gonna be a doctor 现在我要去当医生，
and a concert pianist on the weekend. 还要在周末，去当钢琴演奏家。
A lot of people think I'm joking, 很多人认为我在开玩笑，
but this truly was the expectation. 但这真的是我的期望。
When I was nine years old, 我九岁的时候，
my mother's version of believing in me 我母亲对我的信任 （1993年电影《喜福会》）
was believing that I could be anything, 就是相信我可以成为 （1993年电影《喜福会》）
anything she wanted 她想要的任何人， （1993年电影《喜福会》）
the best piano prodigy this side of China. 成为中国最好的钢琴神童。
I resented the piano. 我讨厌那架钢琴。
It was a little slave master, 就像一个小奴隶监工，
you know, where I had to get everything right. 你知道，我必须把一切都做好。
You know, the right rhythm,the right fingering, 你要知道，正确的节奏，正确的指法，
the right notes,the right expression. 正确的音符，正确的表情。
So I didn't really get a chance to enjoy music, 所以我并没有像我母亲所希望的那样
as my mother would have hoped. 真正享受音乐。
I was getting ready for my first recital, 我正在为我的第一场独奏会做准备，
which was a talent show at the church. 那是在教堂举行的才艺表演。
And you can see I have on patent leather shoes, 你可以看到我穿着漆皮皮鞋，
and this beautiful,violet dress. 还有这件漂亮的紫罗兰色连衣裙。
I had memorized a piece... 我记住了一首曲子…
Bach, a simple minuet. 巴赫的，一首简单的小步舞曲。
I started playing. 我开始了弹奏。
And I got stuck about five measures in. 我在弹了五小节后，就开始卡磕了。
I started over again, 我重新开始，
and I got stuck in the same place. 却被困在了同一个地方。
I did it over and over until the audience started to clap 我做了一遍又一遍，直到观众开始鼓掌，
and I knew I was being sent away. 我知道我要被送走了。
I told my mother 我告诉妈妈
I did not want to play the piano anymore, 我不想再弹钢琴了，
and she said, "Okay, fine.Why you listen to me?" 她说:“好吧，没事。你为什么要听我的话?”
"No play piano, go outside, play there." “不弹钢琴了，走到外面去玩吧。”
"Don't have to listen to Mother “不用听妈妈的话，
because maybe soon,I dead anyway." 因为也许很快，我就会死了。”
But she was not a tiger mom, 但她不是虎妈，
she was a suicidal mother. 她是一个有自杀倾向的母亲。
And that's very different from simply being 这和简单地做一个要求苛刻的母亲是
a demanding mother who wants that kind of perfection. 非常不同的，她想要那种完美。
It was, if you don't feel the way that I do, 如果你没有和我有相同的感受。
I might as well kill myself. 我还不如自杀。
Very different. 非常不同。
There was a Sunday when it was my birthday, 有一个星期天，那天是我的生日，
we all went to church, 我们都去了教堂，
my mother decided to stay behind. 我妈妈决定留下来。
I don't know why, but when we returned home, 我不知道为什么，但当我们回到家时，
I had been expecting a cake 我本以为会有一个蛋糕，
and instead, the furniture was turned upside down. 但相反，家具被颠倒了。
All the chairs in the living room, 客厅里所有的椅子，
the coffee table was just as though 咖啡桌，就像她扔掉了
she had thrown everything. 所有的东西一样。
There was gonna be no cake, 没有蛋糕，
and no lunch, and no dinner. 没有午餐，没有晚餐。
My father took me up that day and we went up to a hill, 那天我父亲带我上了山，
and he took some pictures. 他拍了一些照片。
My father posed me and told me to look at him 我父亲让我摆姿势，
and I wouldn't because I was crying. 但我没有，因为我在哭。
I know that the situations 我知道那些情况
that would cause her to become... 会让她变成…
almost insane is if you did not, 几乎是神经质，如果你
in her mind, respect her. 不遂她的愿，不尊重她的话。
So she might have said something 所以她可能说了什么，
and you just ignored it, 而你只是忽略了它，
or you said something critical about her 或者你在别人面前说了一些
in front of somebody else, 批评她的话，
that was suicide. 那就是在逼她自杀。
That was gonna trigger suicide. 这会引发自杀。
She had no way of coping with anything like that. 她没有办法应付这样的事情。
"The girl and her brothers are sitting “那个女孩和她的兄弟们正坐在
on the backseat of the car, 汽车的后座上，
coming back from church." 他们刚从教堂回来。”
"Her mother turns to her father to say something, “她的母亲转向她的父亲说了些什么，
and right away,she knows it's bad." 她马上就知道情况不妙。”
"Her voice is broken, squeaky, “她的声音断断续续，尖细刺耳，
then jagged, as words scrape through her throat." 然后变得参差不齐，话语从她的喉咙里滑过。”
"'That what you want? You want to go?'" “‘这就是你想要的吗?你想去吗?’”
"'Then go, or I go first.'" “‘要么你走，要么我先走。’”
"Her father reaches for her mother's hand, “她父亲伸手去拉她母亲的手，
but she snatches it back." 但她把它收了回来。”
"It's getting worse, “情况越来越糟，
and just as she thinks that, 就在她这么想的时候，
her mother grunts something that sounds like, 她妈妈咕噜了一声，听起来像是，
'Mm-hmm, maybe I'll kill myself right now, ‘嗯哼，也许我现在就自杀，
"then everybody happy.'" 那样大家就皆大高兴了。’”
"She hears the car door creak, “她听到车门嘎吱一声，
it's cracked open." 车门被撞开了。”
"The car swerves one way and then the other, “汽车突然转向一个方向，
her mother puts her right leg out the car door." 然后又转向另一个方向，她妈妈把右腿伸出了车门。”
"The road grabs her mother's right shoe “路碰着了她妈妈右脚的鞋子，
and it's gone in an instant." 瞬间就消失了。”
"Her mother leans her whole body out." “她妈妈把整个身体都倾着。”
"Then the car swerves again “然后车子又突然转向，
and she feels the tire slip and go off the road." 她感到轮胎打滑，冲出了马路。”
"And soon she hears the sound of crunching gravel “很快她就听到了碎石的嘎吱声，
until they stop." 直到他们停下来。”
"When she sits up, she sees “当她坐起来的时候，她看到
her mother is still in the car." 她妈妈还在车里。”
"Finally, her mother gives up “最后，她的母亲放弃了，
and says in a howling kind of voice, 用一种嚎叫的声音说，
'I want to die.'" ‘我想死。’”
"And then the girl feels her cheeks, “然后女孩摸了摸自己的脸颊，
she's crying, 她哭了，
and she doesn't know when it started." 她不知道是什么时候开始的。”
"She just wants everything to be over." “她只是想让一切都结束。”
At that time, I wrote.I wrote stories. 那时，我在写作。我在写故事。
Writing was almost like letters to myself, 写作几乎就像给自己写信一样，
and often they had to do with angry feelings 我得说，这通常都与我对母亲的
I had, say, with my mother, 愤怒情绪有关，
or something I was frustrated about. 或者与我感到沮丧的事情有关。
So it was like a confident, in a way. 所以在某种程度上，这就像是一种自信。
But it never occurred to me that I could be a writer. 但我从来没有想过，我可以成为一名作家。
I wanted to be an artist. 我想成为一名艺术家。
Drawing was very private and I could do it for hours, 画画是非常私人的事，我可以画上几个小时，
pencil drawings mostly. 大多数时候是用铅笔画的。
A cat, a horse, a girl, 一只猫，一匹马，一个女孩，
a tree, a house... 一棵树，一所房子…
whatever it was, it was private. …不管是什么，都是私人的。
I think what intruded was this notion 我认为是这种想法侵入了我的思想，
it had to be perfect 它必须是完美的，
and I saw other kids who were better at drawing, 我看到其他孩子更擅长画画，
and then ultimately I had an art teacher 然后最终我有一个美术老师
who said I wasn't very creative, 说我不是很有创造力，
that I had no imagination, 我没有想象力，
and that I didn't have what it would take 我没有达到，应该达到的
to get to a deeper level of creativity. 更深层次的创造力。
And, you know, at that point, 而且，你知道，在那个时候，
it seemed there were enough signs 似乎有足够的迹象
that I should not pursue that, 表明我不应该追求它，
plus, my parents would be extremely disappointed 而且，如果我做的是纯粹的娱乐，
if I did something that was purely fun. 我的父母会非常失望。
Whether it's encouragement or discouragement, 不管是鼓励还是打击，
it just stays with you. 它都会一直伴随着你。
I remember when I asked my mother, 我记得当我问我妈妈:
"Would I be considered beautiful in China?" “我在中国会被认为漂亮吗?”
She says,"Well, maybe average." 她说:“嗯，大概长相平平吧。”
And I was so crushed because I thought, well, 我当时很崩溃，因为我想，
I'm kind of ugly in American culture. 我在美国文化中有点丑。
Wouldn't I be at least beautiful 在中国文化中，
in Chinese culture? 我至少是美丽的吧?
No, I was average. 不，我长相一般。
So much for my mother's honesty. 这就是我妈的诚实。
Auntie Daisy and Uncle John 黛西阿姨和约翰叔叔
were two of the founding members of the Joy Luck Club, 是喜福会的两位创始成员，
and Uncle John actually 实际上是约翰叔叔
came up with the name Joy Luck Club. 想出了喜福会这个名字。
And they were regular members 在彼得和约翰叔叔
until Peter had his brain tumor 患脑瘤之前，他们都是
and Uncle John had his. 固定会员。
Shortly after this Christmas, 这个圣诞节后不久，
my older brother Peter was discovered to have 我的哥哥彼得被发现患有
an inoperable brain tumor. 不能手术的脑瘤。
My father,the Baptist minister, 我的父亲是浸礼会牧师，
prayed to God and had the congregations 他向上帝祈祷，并让会众
pray for a miracle. 祈求奇迹。
My mother joined him in all of this... wrote letters. 我母亲也参与了这一切…她是以写信的方式。
Every day, it was a visit to my brother 在他临终的六个月中，我每天都去
who was unconscious... 探视我的哥哥...
at the end of six months. 那时他已经是无意识了。
Two weeks before my brother died, 在我哥哥去世前两周，
my father was diagnosed with a glioblastoma, 我父亲被诊断出患有胶质母细胞瘤，
with a brain tumor. 也是一种脑瘤。
When Peter was diagnosed with this brain tumor, 当彼得被诊断出患有脑瘤时，
it seemed like a short period of time from when he died. 离他去世似乎只有很短的一段时间。
Six months later,Uncle John died. 六个月后，约翰叔叔去世了。
And I think Uncle John 我想彼得死的时候
might have been in the hospital when Peter died. 约翰叔叔可能也在医院里。
So he couldn't really be 所以其实，他不能
where he wanted to be with his son. 和他的儿子在一起。
Two weeks before my father died, 在我父亲去世前两周，
a minister came to counsel me because I had been discovered 一位牧师来劝我，因为有人发现
reading a very bad book, 我在读一本非常糟糕的书，
Catcher in the Rye. —《麦田里的守望者》。
Banned book. 一本禁书。
He was a youth minister,and he came into the room 他是一位青年牧师，他走进我的房间，
and we were sitting on the bed,and he was talking about 我们坐在床上，他说
how I had caused my father more pain than the brain tumor. 我给我父亲带来的痛苦，比脑瘤还要多。
So I started to cry,of course, 所以我很自然地，就开始哭泣了，
and then he said, let's pray for forgiveness. 然后他说，让我们祈祷宽恕吧。
And we did, and I was still crying, 我们就这样做了，我还在哭，
and he said,"You shouldn't cry now." 他说，“你现在不该哭了。”
And I was still crying. 我还在哭。
And then he started to tickle me on my side. 然后他开始挠我的身体。
And then he threw me on the bed 然后他把我扔到床上，
and he tickled me even further. 还进一步挠我。
He tickled me all over. 他挠我全身。
He tickled me under my dress. 他在我衣服下面挠我痒痒。
And when he was done,he said to me, 说完之后，他对我说:
"You have a very dirty mind “你的思想很肮脏，
and no one's going to believe you." 没人会相信你的。”
So I came out of that room a very angry girl. 所以，我从那个房间出来的时候，非常生气。
I was a daddy's girl, 我是爸爸的女儿，
I loved my older brother. 我爱我的哥哥。
They were my protectors,and they were gone. 他们是我的保护者，他们走了。
I was left with this crazy,suicidal mother. 我和这个疯狂，有自杀倾向的母亲在一起。
After my father and brother died, 我父亲和哥哥去世后，
my mother was in such turmoil over what we were gonna do 我母亲为我们的余生该做些什么
with the rest of our lives. 而苦恼不已。
She thought that it was a curse 她认为这是一个诅咒，
and she started seen omens in everything. 她开始在一切事物中看到预兆。
One day she was washing dishes 有一天她在洗碗的时候
and she picked up this can of... 捡起了一个罐头…
I think it was called Old Dutch cleanser... 我记得它叫老牌荷兰洗洁精…
and she just said,"Holland... Holland is clean, 她只是说，“荷兰……荷兰是干净的，
we're moving to Holland." 我们要搬去荷兰。”
With anybody else,that would be a joke. 如果是别人，那就是个笑话。
But with my mother,that was the reason 但我母亲，这就是她
why she decide we go to Holland. 决定我们去荷兰的原因。
Maybe we would be able to outrun this curse 也许我们能摆脱这个追随着
that was after us. 我们的诅咒。
We packed all our clothes, 我们收拾好了所有的衣服，
our furniture went to relatives, 把家具送给了亲戚，
I didn't even know that she sold the house. 我甚至不知道她把房子卖了。
We ended up on a boat. 我们最后上了一艘船。
This is my mother and all of us going to the Netherlands. 这是我妈妈和我们一起去荷兰。
We arrived at with no idea where we were gonna live. 我们不知道要住在哪里。
And we ended up drifting, 我们始终在辗转不定，
we ended up going to Switzerland. 我们最终去了瑞士。
We lived on a little chalet on the mountain, 我们住在山上的小木屋里，
Beautiful...you could see the Lake Geneva. 很漂亮…你可以看到日内瓦湖。
Every day,waking up to Lake Geneva. 每天醒来，都能看到日内瓦湖。
Here's the house where I used to live. 这是我以前住过的房子。
Here's the window in the bedroom. 这是卧室的窗户。
Here's the view of Montreux. 这是蒙特勒的景色。
And what happened there was not only 那里发生的事不仅是
all the pent up anger I had had 我对我哥哥和父亲的去世
and was not able to express 所产生的压抑的、
about the death of my brother and father. 无法表达的愤怒。
It was now the freedom to have boyfriends, 现在有了交男朋友的自由，
to be friends with rich girls who wore makeup. 有了和化妆的富家女孩交朋友的自由。
I started smoking. 我开始吸烟。
I almost ran off and eloped with the German army deserter. 我差点就跟那个德国逃兵私奔了。
My mother thought he was going to ruin me 我母亲认为他会毁了我，
and she could do nothing to dissuade me. 她没有办法劝阻我。
When my mom was on her own, 当我妈妈一个人的时候，
there was a lot of grief and a lot of shouting. 她会悲从心中起，并大声喊叫。
She was angry of everything that was happening. 她对所遭遇的一切感到愤怒。
We had many, many arguments. 我们争吵了很多很多次。
I remember times when I would go into the bathroom 我记得有几次我躲进浴室，
so she couldn't see me. 这样她就看不见我了。
I would be absolutely placid 我会非常平静地
and I'd go in the bathroom and then I'd have dry heaves, 走进浴室，然后出现干呕，
and then I'd come out,and I didn't want her to see 然后出来，我不想让她看到
that it affected me whatsoever. 这对我有任何影响。
Nothing that she said could change me. 她说什么都改变不了我。
It was part of my decision to not be like her at all, 这是我做的决定，完全和她的格格不入，
to not have those emotions. 一点也不情绪化。
But I came home one day,and she was raging. 但有一天我回到家，她很生气。
She had this way of breathing. 她的呼吸方式是这样的。
It was like... 就像…
Like that,and her face was crazed …就这样，她的脸显得疯狂了，
and she pushed me and she kept pushing me 她推我，她一直推我
into the bedroom,and she locked it 进我的卧室，她从里面把门锁上，
from the inside, and she tossed the key somewhere. 然后把钥匙扔在了某个地方。
And she had this cleaver 她拿着这把切肉刀
and she backed me up against the wall. 把我抵靠在墙上。
And she just said, 她只是说:
"It's enough. It's time." “闹够了。到时候了。”
"I'm going to kill you first,and then Didi." “我要先杀了你，然后是迪迪。”
That's what we called my brother, 我们就是这么称呼我弟弟的，
"And then I'm going to kill myself, “然后我要自杀，
and we will all be with Daddy and Peter." 我们就都能和爸爸和彼得在一起了。”
And her eyes were different. 她的眼神都不正常了。
Her eyes were glazed in a way. 她的眼睛有些呆滞。
They were gone. 它们都失去了活力。
It wasn't just anger,she was gone. 不仅是愤怒，她失去理智了。
And I thought, she's really...she's crazy. 我想，她真的…真的疯了。
She's gonna do it. 她会这么做的。
And I remember looking out the window, 我记得我望着窗外，
looking out on Lake Geneva,and the French Alps, 望着日内瓦湖，还有法国侧的阿尔卑斯山，
and I just looked and I said,this is it. 我看着，然后说，就是这里了。
And it's so sad. 这太让人难过了。
It's so sad that this is what it has come to. 事情发展到这种地步真是太可悲了。
And what came out of my throat, 从我喉咙里发出的，
I thought, was a complete betrayal to me, was a voice. 我想，是一个完全背叛了我的声音。
The voice said,"I wanna live." 那个声音说:“我想活下去。”
"I wanna live. I wanna live." “我想活下去。我想活。”
When that voice said,"I wanna live, I wanna live," 当那个声音说"我要活，我要活"的时候，
that was the end of it. 一切就结束了。
That's all I remember up until that point. 在那之前我只记得这些。
After a while,when I found out that 过了一段时间，当我发现
I could graduate a year early, 我可以提前一年毕业时，
I had my reason to leave home. 我有了离开家的理由。
After they moved, 他们搬家后，
we didn't see them for a few years, 我们有几年没见过他们。
and then when Amy and her family 后来，当恩美和她的家人
came back from Switzerland, 从瑞士回来的时候，
I guess I was a freshman in college at San Jose State, 我想我是圣何塞州立大学的大一新生，
and Amy and her boyfriend, Lou, 而恩美和她的男朋友，卢，
had transferred from Linfield College. 已经从林菲尔德学院转过来了。
I looked them up and we started 我去迎接了他们，并开始
seeing each other again. 彼此见面了。
I had to get used to the idea that 我必须要习惯
there was this guy now in the picture. 照片里出现了这个人。
Lou was actually a blind date. 卢其实是盲目赴约的。
I was in a sorority,and somebody decided 我参加了一个女生联谊会，有人出于
for some crazy reason to ask him to go to a function. 某种疯狂的原因，邀请他去参加一个活动。
And when I found out what she had done, 当我发现她的所作所为后，
I said, "I am not going out with this guy." 我说:“我不会和这家伙约会的。”
It wasn't exactly love at first sight. 我们并不是一见钟情。
It was more maybe cluelessness at first sight 这更可能是我第一眼看到的无知，
because I wasn't adversely reacting 因为我并没有对恩美所做的一切
to all of the things that Amy did 做出负面反应，
to make it seem that she wanted nothing to do with me. 让我觉得，她不想和我有任何关系。
He was mellow, nice, handsome. 他成熟、友善、英俊。
He was built in a muscle way 他的肌肉很结实，
that I've always found unattractive in men. 我一直觉得这一点在男人身上没什么吸引力。
I always feel that the amount of muscle mass 我总觉得肌肉的数量
kinda detracts from the mass in the brain. 有点分散了大脑的质量。
We overcame these thoughts of his, somehow. 我们克服了对他的这些想法。
Within a month,it was pretty evident 在一个月内，很明显
that we were gonna make a go of it. 我们会拍拖成功的。
- Dad, Mom. - Hi. -爸爸，妈妈。 -嗨！
This is Rose Hsu,my girlfriend. 这是罗丝·许，我的女朋友。
-Hello -Hi. -你好。 -嗨。
His parents did not like me, 他的父母不喜欢我，
and always tried to get us to break up. 总是想让我们分手。
She said it was because of the Vietnam War. 她说那是因为越南战争。
He's going to be working with his father in the company 他将和他父亲一起在公司工作，
and, uh, he's going to be judged by people of 而且，呃，他会被人评判，
a different standard 被不同标准的人评判，
and they won't be as understanding as we are. 他们不会像我们这么善解人意。
Mrs. Jordan, you sound as if Ted and I are getting married. 乔丹太太，你说得好像泰德和我要结婚了。
That's hardly the case. 事实并非如此。
Oh, I know, dear.It's just that, 哦，我知道，亲爱的。只是，
well, the way the world is, 世界就是这样，
how unpopular Vietnam was. 越南是多么不受欢迎。
I'm not Vietnamese.I'm American. 我不是越南人。我是美国人。
I would not wanna dismiss them as hardcore racists. 我可不想把他们当成顽固的种族主义者。
They weren't that, 他们不是那样的，
but they still had difficulty accepting Amy 但他们还是难以接受恩美
that was a cloud on the relationship, really, 这是我们关系的阴云，真的，
throughout our lives. 贯穿我们一生。
We were so young,and he didn't know 我们那时太年轻了，他不知道
how to stand up for me to his parents. 如何在他父母面前维护我。
And so I said, this is it. 于是我说，就是这样了。
Either we get married,or it's over. 我们要么结婚，要么结束。
So that was the proposal. 这就是我的建议。
And he said, "Oh, okay." 他说:“哦，好吧。”
Four months later,we got married. 四个月后，我们结婚了。
He was such a nice guy. 他是个很好的人。
And I had the thought that my father would have liked him. 我还有这样的念头，如果我父亲还健在，会喜欢他的。
I lived with my mom in San Leandro. 我和我妈住在圣莱安德罗。
I think I was 16 or 17 years old. 我想我当时16或17岁。
Amy and Lou had come down to visit. 恩美和卢来串门了。
Shrimp, my favorite. 虾仁，我最爱吃了。
And my mom had made over,I'd say, 我妈做了，差不多
200 to 300 pot stickers. 200到300个锅贴。
And they came and they ate most of them. 他们来了，吃掉了大部分。
Oh, my God. He just, like,wolfed those down. 哦,我的上帝。他就这么狼吞虎咽地吃了下去。
I was so pissed off. 我很生气。
I said,"Don't ever bring him back." 我说"永远别把他带回家来。"
All this needs is a little soy sauce. 只要一点酱油就行了。
The entire world assumes it must be me. 社交圈里的人都认为，我一定会这样干的。
I can't count the times I've met people and they say, 我都记不清我遇见了多少人，他们都说，
"I know you.You're the guy who said, “我记得你，你就是那个说，
'All it needs is a little soy sauce.'" ‘只要加一点酱油就行了’的人。”
And I think the irony to that story is that 我认为这个故事的讽刺之处在于，
I actually managed to make 我实际上成功地
a halfway decent first impression. 给人留下了，还算不错的第一印象。
He's like a brother to me. 他就像我的一位兄长。
I mean, my lost brother,he came into my life, 我想说，我虽失去了哥哥，但他走进了我的生活，
he supported me as much as possible, 他尽可能地给我帮助，
and he was very conscious of keeping my mom happy 他非常了解怎么让我的妈妈和我，开心起来
and so forth. 之类的事情。
There was a brief period of time that I actually 有很短一段时间，说实在的，
probably had a better relationship 我和恩美妈妈的关系
with Amy's mother than Amy did. 可能比恩美还好。
And they were at loggerheads 当他们吵得不可开交时，
because Amy was finally telling her mother, 因为恩美终于向她妈妈袒露，
no, I'm not going to be a medical doctor 不，我不想当医生，
and a concert pianist by night. 晚上又当音乐会钢琴家。
You know, I'm going to do this my way. 你也知道，就得我来打圆场了。
- There you are, puffing away. - Oh. -你就在那儿吞云吐雾。 -哦。
You've turned it on? 你开机录了？
- Yeah. - Oh, no. -是的。 -哦，别。
My mother will see this and tell me... 我妈妈看到这个会跟我说...
She won't approve. 她不赞同你抽烟。
At that point,I really had the love/hate 而此时此刻，我真的和我妈妈有一种
relationship with my mother. 爱恨情仇。
I knew what kind of support she needed to not kill herself. 我知道，她需要什么样的支持才不会让她自杀。
So I started writing letters to her 所以我上大学后
when I went to college. 开始给她写信。
"Dear Mom, Boy, it sure was good “亲爱的妈妈，老伙计，能和你
talking to you on the telephone, 在电话里交谈，真的很好，
even though I didn't say anything too profound." 尽管我没有说什么深奥的话。”
And in a way, it was similar 在某种程度上，这就像
to what I do now with characters. 我现在对我书中角色所做的。
I have to make myself 我必须让自己
emotionally like those characters. 在情感上像那些角色。
And that's what I did with my mother. 我和我母亲的交流，就是这么进行的。
It was necessary 这是必要的，
because she was alone in the world. 因为她在这个世界上是孤独的。
She needed that. 她需要交流。
Lou and I talked about kids,and I was a little afraid 卢和我谈到了孩子，我有点担心，
that what if I had a child who would be, 如果我有了孩子，
A, like me,once they're a teen, 会像我一样，一旦他们长大成人，
you know,a lot of trouble, 你知道，会有很多麻烦，
or would be... be sick like my brother, and die. 或者会…像我哥哥一样生病，然后死去。
I would have been a terrible mother, 我会是一个糟糕的母亲，
I would have been like my mother. 我会像我母亲一样。
I would have been worried all the time about 我会一直担心
every single possibility of disease and danger. 每一种疾病和危险的可能性。
And so that became the decision. 这就成了我们的决定。
- Hi. - Hello. -嗨！ -你好。
- Oh, look at you. - What? Look at you. -哦，看看你。 -什么？看看你吧。
I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit 我想知道你能否给我们讲讲
about your pre-Joy Luck Club world. 你们喜福会之前的世界。
You know,I had another best seller. 你知道吗，我还有一本畅销书。
It sold... you know what these numbers are. 它售罄了...你要知道这些数字。
When you have a best seller, 当你完成了一本畅销书，
you have to sell a certain amount in the first week. 你必须在第一周销售出一定数量的书本。
I'd sold 80,000 copies and went in for two reprints. 我卖出了8万册，还再印了两遍。
It was called Telecommunications and You. 它叫做《通讯和你》。
It was published for IBM. 是为了“国际商用机器公司”出版的。
And I was a business writer 在我开始写小说之前，
before I started writing fiction. 我是一个商业作家。
Amy was linguistics...an English major... 恩美是个语言学家...她的专业是英语...
and I remember her wanting to write. 我记得她有写作的欲望。
John, my husband,started a business. 约翰，我的丈夫，开始了一门生意。
He had one phone line that was Dial-A-Joke, 他有一条电话是“笑话热线”，
another phone line that was Dial Michael Jackson, 另一条是“迈克尔·杰克逊热线”，
and another one that had astrology. 还有一条是“占星学热线”。
So he hired Amy to write astrology. 所以他雇佣恩美，写占星术材料。
She was very creative, 她非常有创造性，
and she would make it up. 她会编得很好。
I was doing a little bit of ad copy, 我那时也会编一些广告的样本，
direct mail...the really sleazy stuff. 我会把这些样本直接寄给...那些庸俗不堪的机构。
You know, like,do these exercises, 你懂的，这就像在做练习，
and your vision will become perfect, 而你自己的视界会变得更加完美，
or study this course,and you'll be a doctor. 否则继续研究你的专业，然后成为一名医生。
I had materials I wrote for a telecommunications company. 我为一家电信公司写了一些材料。
I was the subject matter expert 我曾经是“一线通”、“广域网络”
on ISDN and wide area networks 和有关“美国电话电报公司”
and the divestiture of AT&T. 股权转让方面的主题材料的专家。
All those subjects, I had absolutely no interest in. 所有这些主题，我都完全没有兴趣。
I was doing really well. 我曾经真的做的很好。
I had a lot of clients. 我当时有很多客户。
I was working about 90 billable hours a week, 我每周工作90个计费小时工作，
and... which meant I didn't have a lot of time 而且…这意味着我没有很多时间
to sleep or eat or be social. 睡觉、吃饭或进行社交。
And I was looking for something more meaningful. 我在寻找更有意义的工作。
And that's why I started writing fiction. 这就是我开始写小说的原因。
I met somebody who encouraged me to read fiction again, 我遇到了一个人，她鼓励我再次读小说，
and she gave me a reading list and she was a writer. 她给了我一个阅读清单，她是一个作家。
And I started to write. 于是，我开始写作。
And the things I discovered about writing at that point 我在写作中发现的东西
were so important to me. 对我来说，非常重要。
It was the notion that you could write 它的理念是，你可以通过写作
and find out what you really believed and felt. 来发现并体会到，自己真正的信仰。
All these things that had been submerged, 所有这些被淹没的东西，
they just came out 都通过小说
and it was through fiction 浮出水面，
because fiction gave you a place of safety. 因为小说给了你一个安全的地方。
It wasn't about you, 这不是关于你，
it was about these characters, 是关于这些角色，
but it was about you. 但它也是关于你的。
And at that point,I knew I would write 在那一刻，我知道我的余生
the rest of my life. 都将写作。
I would write fiction the rest of my life. 我会用我的余生写小说。
1985, 33 years old. 1985年，已经是33岁了。
I never was so egotistical as to think 我从来没有自大到认为
I could make a living doing that. 我可以以此为生。
The telling moment for Amy and her mother 对恩美和她母亲来说，
was when we were on vacation in Hawaii, 最感人的时刻是我们在夏威夷度假时，
she got a phone call from her brother. 她接到了她哥哥的电话。
He said that Mom had just had a heart attack 他说妈妈刚刚心脏病发作，
and this sounded like a life-threatening situation. 这听起来像是危及生命的情况。
As I went to a phone booth to call the hospital, 当我走到电话亭给医院打电话时，
I was sure it was too late. 我知道已经太晚了。
As I waited to be connected, 当我等待与之通话时，
I made a vow to God and whoever was listening, 我向上帝和当时所有在听的人发誓，
if my mother lives, 如果我母亲还活着，
I will get to know her. 我一定要去了解她。
I will ask her about her past. 我会询问她的过去。
And this time, I'll actually listen to what she has to say. 这一次，我真的要好好听她要说了什么，
Why, I'll even take her to China. 为什么这么说，我甚至还想把她带回中国。
And yes, I'll write stories about her. 是的，我会写关于她的故事。
All at once, I heard my mother's voice, 突然，我听到了妈妈的声音，
"Amy." “恩美。”
"Oh, Mom, are you okay?" “哦，妈妈，你还好吗？”
"Yes, fine, fine." “是的，很好，很好。”
"Listen, I thought you had a heart attack, I thought..." “听着，我以为你心脏病发作了，我以为…”
My mother cut me off with a huff. 我母亲生气地打断了我的话。
"Heart attack? No, no, no, no." “心脏病? 不，不，不，不。”
"I go to fish market and the fishmonger, “我去鱼市，那个鱼贩
he tried cheating me,made me so mad." 试图欺骗我，让我很生气。”
"All sudden, I got a pain in my chest, hurt me so bad." “突然间，我胸口一阵疼痛，疼得厉害。”
"So I drive to Kaiser Hospital." “所以我开车去了凯撒医院。”
"Turn out, I have angina caused by stress." “原来，我得了紧张引起的心绞痛。”
"So, you see, that fishmonger,he wrong, stressed me out." “所以，你看，那个鱼贩，他错了，让我很紧张。”
- Buy something like this.- What is it? -还买这样的东西。 -什么?
That's fish. 那条鱼。
After I hung up,I heard a voice saying, 挂断电话后，我听到一个声音说:
"Hey, don't forget now,you promised." “嘿，别忘了，你刚许过愿的。”
I started to ask her about her life. 我开始询问她的生活。
And I listened,instead of saying, 我听着，没有像以往那样说:
"I'm really busy now, I can't... I can't listen to you." “我现在真的很忙，我不能…不能再听你絮叨了”
I would listen to everything. 我宁愿听每件事情。
And that profoundly changed everything, 这彻底改变了一切，
I wasn't fighting it anymore. 我不再与之抗争。
And I learned a lot by simply being quiet 通过保持安静和认真倾听，
and actually listening. 我学到了很多。
Remember you used to want to go back to China to live? 还记得你以前想回中国生活吗?
- Yeah. - Why? -记得。 -为什么？
Because you two are not treat me good, 因为你们两个对我不好，
John and you. 约翰和你。
I want to go back and have a servant and live alone... quiet. 我想回去找个保姆，一个人住…安静。
At about that time, 大约在那个时候，
Amy really started writing 恩美真正开始写作
as a mental health break from all of the business work 是为了从她正在做的所有商业工作中获得
that she was doing. 精神上的休息。
While Amy was writing these stories, 当恩美在写这些故事的时候，
she would frequently sit down 她经常会坐下来，
and just let her mother tell her life story. 让她的母亲讲述她的人生故事。
Okay. No, if I wrote her...wrote him, 好的。不，如果我给她写信…给他写了,
your father... I didn't say I want to come to United States. 你父亲…我没说我想来美国。
No, communists... going to come 不,共产党…马上就来，
- but... what I... I can do. - What month was that? -但是…什么我…我能做的。 -那是几月份？
- That's... - My dad and my mother -那是...-在我们成长的过程中，
never told us about their lives in China 爸爸和妈妈从来没有告诉过我们
when we were growing up. 他们在中国的生活。
And then later in the years,she finally said, 几年后，她终于说:
"You have sisters in China." “你在中国有姐妹。”
And I said, "What? Sisters? what do you mean, sisters?" 我说:“什么?姐妹吗?你这是什么意思，姐妹们?”
Yeah, she told us that we have three past sisters. 是的，她告诉我们我们有三个过世的姐妹。
I was just kinda, like,dumbfounded. 我只是有点，目瞪口呆了。
Like, what? I... I don't know... 就像，怎么说？ 我...我不知道...
What are their names and how old are they? 他们叫什么名字，多大了?
Where have they been living? 他们一直住在哪里?
That kind of information took a while to figure out. 这种信息要花点时间，才能弄明白。
Amy and Lou and Mom went back to China 恩美，卢和妈妈回中国
to go visit the family. 探望她的家人了。
Yeah, look where we are,we're in Shanghai. 是啊，看看我们在哪儿，我们在上海。
We went to China so Amy could really get 我们去了中国，这样恩美就能真正接近
close to Amy's mother's history and family. 恩美母亲的历史和家庭。
We're on the train on our way to Qingdao. 我们在去青岛的火车上。
It doesn't get any better than this. 没有比这更好的了。
This is the front of Communist martyrs hotel. 这是共产党先烈宾馆的正面。
Piano that accompanied the building of the hotel, I guess. 我想，这架钢琴一定也伴随着这座建筑。
- Come on. - Come on. -算了吧。 -接着弹。
After that, they decided to see 那之后，他们打算看看
if any of the siblings would want to come to America. 有没有什么姐妹，愿意去美国。
- Amy? - Yeah. -恩美？ -是的。
I'm so glad to see you today, Amy. 很高兴今天见到你，恩美。
Next time, I may stay longer,but I'm afraid you're too busy. 下次我可能待久一点，但恐怕你太忙了。
How about this picture? 这幅照片是怎么回事？
Oh, it's our Mom. 哦，这是我的妈妈。
When she was a kid. 她小的时候。
When mom was little? 妈妈还是个小孩？
So this is 鈥渒id Mom鈥? 这就是个小妈妈？
- Yeah. - How about this one? -是的。-这位又是谁？
That's your grandma. 那是你的外婆。
- This is her? - Yeah. -这就是她吗?-是的。
- Looks so young! - Uh huh. -看起来很年轻!-嗯嗯。
- So this girl is Mom? - She's your Mom. -这个女孩就是妈妈? -她是你的妈妈。
- She's your Mom, too. - She is my Mom and our Mom. -她也是你妈妈。 -她是我的妈妈，也是我们的妈妈。
Yes. Oh, that picture is good. 是的。哦，那张照片很好。
I didn't understand until I was an adult 我成年后才明白
what she meant by sacrifices. 她所说的牺牲是什么意思。
They were all that she had left behind in Shanghai, 这是她留在上海的所有东西，
where she'd had a life of privilege, 她在那里过着优越的生活，
starting from the age of nine 从9岁起，
when her widowed mother married the richest man 她寡母嫁给了上海的外岛上
on the island outside of Shanghai. 最富有的人。
She went from being the honorable widow 她从一个穷学者的
of a poor scholar 体面寡妇
to a wealthy man's fourth wife, 变成了一个富人的第四任妻子，
one of his concubines. 他的一个小妾。
One version of clan history, 一个版本的氏族历史，
cast her the victim of a rape by the rich man, 把她塑造成一个被富人强奸的受害者，
which resulted in pregnancy. 并导致怀孕。
To teach her husband a lesson, 为了给丈夫一个教训，
she swallowed opium. 她吞下了鸦片。
"She had only meant to scare him," “她只是想吓唬他。”
my mother explained. 我的母亲解释说。
"She died by accident." “她是意外死亡的。”
But there were a few times 但有几次，
when she acknowledged that her mother killed herself 她承认她的母亲自杀，
because, "She could not take it anymore." 是因为“她再也无法忍受了。”
Sometimes she felt the same,she would say. 她会说，有时她也有同样的感觉。
She was about 18, here, 她当时大概18岁，你看，
and I think to judge by how innocent she looks, 我想，从她看起来有多天真来判断，
it was before she married 在她嫁给她所谓的
who she called "that bad man," “那个坏男人”之前，
a pilot who was supposed to marry her stepsister, 一个本该和她同父异母姐姐结婚的飞行员，
the man threw that woman over to marry my mother 那个男人抛弃了那个女人，娶了我母亲，
because she was beautiful. 因为她长得漂亮。
This is when you were 18? 这是你18岁的时候吗?
- Eighteen, Chinese age is 20. - Yeah. - 18岁，中国人20虚岁。 -是的。
- Maybe 19. - You wore a white dress? -也许19岁。 -你当时穿了条白色裙子？
Yeah. 是的。
And this man spend my money all up. 这个人把我的钱都花光了。
Can you see that? 你能看出来吗？
And he was... destroying my body, too, is that right? 他还…还毁了我的身体，明白吗?
So foolish, 太傻了，
so stupid... stupid person. 太傻了...笨蛋。
- I hate myself. - Mm-hmm. -我恨我自己。 -嗯嗯。
And every day the sex,every day, he want it. 每天做爱，每天，他都想要。
They don't get... don't give it,again on the bed. 他们达不到...没有给，就再次躺在床上。
He's not treating my person. 他根本没把我当人看待。
He treating I belong to him...a box, a thing, 他认为我是属于他的...就像一个盒子，一件物品，
For he to not everyday use, 对他来说，不是每天必用的，
- is that right? - Mm-hmm. -明白吗？ -嗯嗯。
Just so you know how bad he was, 你要知道，他对我有多坏，
He was somebody who made his daughters bring home 他是那种，让自己的女儿把同学
their schoolmates so he could rape them. 带回家，好强奸她们。
This is a man my mother could not leave. 这是一个我母亲无法离开的男人。
By the laws of marriage at that time, 根据当时的婚姻法，
she had to stay with him. 她必须和他在一起。
And during that time with him,she had four children, 在这段时间里，她生了四个孩子，
a son and three daughters. 一个儿子，三个女儿。
The first son that you had then, how did he die? 你当时的第一个儿子，他是怎么死的?
Maybe with the restaurant...eat something wrong that night, 也许在饭馆…那天晚上吃错了东西，
then he came home,was diarrhea... never stop. 然后他回到家，就拉肚子了…停不下来。
Then I was looking for his father, 然后我就去找他父亲，
take him to the doctor. 带他去看医生。
He came home,he said that son's sick. 他来到家，他说他儿子病了。
He said, 鈥淪i ren bu guan.鈥? 他说，“死人不管。”
鈥淪i ren bu guan.鈥? meaning, 死人不管，是不是就意味着，
- doesn't something matter... - No, if he die, I don't care. -是无关紧要的东西... -不，如果他死了，我不会介意的。
- Yeah. Oh... - 鈥淪i ren bu guan.鈥? -是的。哦...“死人不管。”
- 鈥淪i ren bu guan.鈥? - Mm-hmm. -“死人不管。” -嗯嗯。
- "He dies, I don't care." - Mm-hmm. -“他死了，我不在乎。”—嗯。
My father took this photo in Tianjin, 这张照片是我父亲在天津拍的，
he was working for the US Information Agency, 他在美国新闻处工作，
and she was visiting that town with her sister-in-law. 而她和她的嫂子正在那个城市游玩。
Once she met him, she stayed, 她一遇到他就留下了，
effectively abandoning her marriage. 实际上放弃了自己的婚姻。
This was during the height 那是在我父母的婚外情
of my mother and father's affair, 最激烈的时候，
unfathomable love during this time, 在这段时间里，深不可测的爱，
that could conquer everything. 可以征服一切。
They had this affair for at least two seasons, 他们的这段恋情，至少持续了两个季度，
and then her husband,who hired a detective, 然后她的丈夫雇了一个侦探，
had her hauled back to Shanghai 把她带回了上海，
and put in jail. 关进了监狱。
She tried to kill herself,of course, in jail, 她试图自杀，当然，是在监狱里，
was hospitalized. 被送进了医院。
And during that time,my father had 在那段时间里，我父亲的良心
his conscience stirred and he felt that he had played 受到了触动，他觉得他在
this terrible role in destroying this marriage 破坏这段婚姻，和这个家庭中扮演了
and this family. 一个可怕的角色。
He pledged that he would love her forever. 他发誓永远爱她。
And if she could free herself, 如果她能挣脱束缚，
she should join him in the United States. 她应该去美国和他会合。
And then he left. 然后，他就走了。
She got the divorce, eventually, 她最终通过耍手段
through trickery and through the help of relatives. 和亲戚的帮助下，成功离婚了。
What happens to a person 一个女人把自己的女儿
when they leave their daughters behind? 抛在身后会发生什么?
What kind of guilt comes up? 她会产生什么样的负罪感?
As my mother tells it, 我母亲告诉我，
when they announced that John Tan's bride 当他们宣布约翰·谭的新娘
was coming from Shanghai, 从上海来的时候，
there were several womenwho shrieked 有几个女人尖叫着，
and then ran out in tears. 然后哭着跑了出去。
I don't know whether that's true. 我不知道，这是不是真的。
She was in love, 她陷入爱情中，
so she did what she needed to do. 所以她做了她需要做的事。
It was hard to wrap my head around 我很难理解
all the different aspects of Auntie Daisy's past. 黛西阿姨过去的方方面面。
What helped is that I had a half-brother 帮助我的是，我有一个同父异母的哥哥，
and knowing the story of my grandmother being a concubine, 并且知道我祖母是姨太太的故事，
which was not easy to say. 这并不容易说出口。
Because the culture's different, 因为文化不同，
talking to people in the States, 和美国人交谈，
it was hard, I think, for them to understand what that meant. 我想他们很难理解这意味着什么。
I learned about Auntie Daisy's past, 我知道黛西阿姨的过去，
I think it was as Amy was developing her stories. 我想是在恩美讲故事的时候。
Amy had written a few stories 恩美写了一些故事，
that she didn't really connect up with as a novel or anything, 但她并没有真正把它们，作为小说或其他东西联系起来， （斯阔谷：1960年冬季奥运会举办地）
but she went to the Squaw Valley 但她参加了在“斯阔谷”召开的
Writer's Conference 作家大会，
and got a lot of good feedback 得到了很多很好的反馈，
to encourage her to keep writing. 鼓励她继续写作。
I was teaching at Squaw Valley 我在斯阔谷教书，
and we had Wednesday afternoons off. 我们周三下午休息。
So a bunch of us took the tram up to the top of the mountain. 所以我们一群人乘电缆车上了山顶。
I didn't know Amy.She was in the tram. 我不认识恩美，她当时也在缆车上。
We got up the mountain, 等我们到了山顶，
it started to hail,and the lightning was going. 就开始了下冰雹，并伴随着电闪雷鸣。
Our guide, who said he knew the mountain 据我们的向导说，他虽然对这座山峰
like the back of his hand did in the winter. 了如指掌，但那时在冬季。
He was a ski instructor. 他是一位滑雪教练。
He did not know how to get us down in the summer. 他不知道怎么在夏天把我们这些人送下山。
So it took us maybe two or three hours. 于是，我们大概花了3个小时。
I mean, we're all good writers,but bad athletes. 我们虽是优秀的作家，却不是蹩脚的运动员。
None of us were exactly in shape. 没有一个人有健硕的体型。
And we edged our way down the ravines. 我们沟壑小心翼翼地下山。
And when we got to the bottom, 当我们走到山底时，
Amy Tan unzipped her fanny pack 恩美·谭拉开腰包的拉链，
and pulled out a single cigarette. 拿出一根烟。
And I remember they took a picture. 我记得他们拍了一张照片。
I... this white jersey skirt of mine was... 我…这条白衬连衣裙…
had been hailed on, it had mud on it, had blood on it. 被冰雹刮过，上面有泥，甚至还有血。
It was just sort of dragging around 那时候我的脚踝
my ankles at that point. 都被它拖着了。
But Amy looked perfect. 但是恩美却看上起不错。
And then the one cigarette,perfect. 虽然是在抽烟，但却很完美。
The next day, she felt that 第二天，她觉得
we'd been through something together, 我们已经有了共度困境的经历，
and she asked if I would take a look at her story, 她问我，是否可以读一下她写的故事，
and I did, and I loved it. 我读了，并非常喜欢它。
And it was a mess, and I still loved it. 虽然有点儿凌乱，但我还是喜欢它。
And I remember saying to her, 我记得我跟她说，
"You know, this would be wonderful." “我跟你说，这会非常精彩的。”
"You should break this into 12 separate short stories." “你应该把它分成12个独立的短故事。”
And Amy said my favorite word as a student, 恩美说了，我学生时代最爱用的词，
"Okay," and she did it. “好吧”，她照做了。
So that's how it started, and it happened fast after that. 事情就是这样开始的，之后很快就发生了。
It happened very fast. 发生的确实很快。
Molly Giles said,"I think you should meet 莫莉·贾尔斯说:“我觉得你应该见见
a writer I'm working with, Amy Tan." 和我一起工作的作家谭恩美。”
And so Amy came armed with an outline and, 于是恩美带着大纲来了，
the title was Wind and Water. 题目是《风与水》。
And I said, well, coming from California, 我说，好吧，我来自加州，
I will be laughed out of Manhattan 我会在曼哈顿引起别人笑话的，
if I come in with a book called Wind and Water. 如果我带着一本名叫《风与水》的书的话。
In the synopsis 在故事梗概里
were these four magical words, 有这四个神奇的字，
"The Joy Luck Club." “喜福会”。
And I got goose pimples when I saw those words. 当我看到这些文字时，我起了鸡皮疙瘩。
That's my goose pimple test. 这简直是我的“鸡皮疙瘩”测试。
And I said, "Could we use that as a title?" 我说，“我们可以用它作为标题吗?”
And Amy said, "That's just a club my parents have. 恩美说:“那只是我父母的俱乐部。
You know, they meet on Thursday nights. 他们每周四晚上见面。
They play Mahjong." 他们打麻将。”
It's like the Girl Scouts of America. 就像美国女童子军聚会一样。
I mean, it just sounded so prosaic, you know. 我是说，这听起来太平淡了。
It's a stock planning club,you know? 这是个股票分析俱乐部，你知道吗?
- Yeah. - And I said, "Well, you know, -是的。 -我说。“你要知道，
who doesn't want joy, luck and who doesn't wanna 谁不想高兴，交好运并成为
be a member of that club?" 这个俱乐部的成员？”
By the way, there's now a restaurant in New York, 顺便说一下，现在纽约有一家餐馆，
which is a derivative,called the Soy Luck Club. 是它的衍生品，叫做“幸运黄豆俱乐部”。
One of the nights we were at Amy and Lou's house 我们在恩美和卢家的一个晚上，
was the night there was a bidding war 是她的处女作的
for her first book. 竞价大战。
She would excuse herself from her table, 她会时而离开她的桌子，
and she talked to her agent,and she'd come back, 和她的经纪人谈，然后她再回来，
she goes, "Knopf just bid on my book." 她接着说，“科诺普夫出版社刚刚出价投标了我的书。”
And then another phone call would come in and, 然后又有一个电话打来，
"Putnam just bid on my book." “普南特投资公司刚刚出价投标了我的书。”
Amy thought, "Well,I've got this contract." 恩美想:“好吧，我就签了合同。”
"I get to write my book,and it will be published." “我要写我的书，它会出版的。”
"But in six months,it will be life back “但六个月后，我们的生活就会
as we lived it before." 恢复到以前的样子。”
And when it took off,did I expect it? 它起飞的时候，我预料到了吗?
No, I did not. 不，我没有。
The Joy Luck Club went right to number one 《喜福会》直接登上了畅销书排行榜的
on the bestseller list. 第一名。
When The Joy Luck Club hit, it really hit. 《喜福会》大卖的时候，真的很火。
It was a revolution. 这是一场革命。
The book was a finalist for the National Book Award 这本书入围了美国国家图书奖
and the National Book Critics Circle Award. 和美国国家书评圈奖。
It was the longest running number one book 它是《纽约时报》畅销书排行榜上排名第一
on the New York Times Best Seller list. 持续时间最长的书。
The Joy Luck Club was so massive when it came out. 《喜福会》刚发行的时候，规模很大。
I mean, everybody loved it. 我的意思是，每个人都喜欢它。
It was just a magical book to appear. 这只是一本神奇的书的问世。
There was nothing like it. 没有比这更好的了。
And now I see that I am not the only one with 现在我明白了，我不是唯一一个
the mother that says all of the stuff 母亲会说出那些
that sounds unbelievable. 令人难以置信的话的人。
It was hard to believe the success. 这一成功令人难以置信。
Everybody embraced the book. 每个人都喜欢这本书。
I have to tell her that she has 我必须告诉她，
accomplished a mission with me, 她和我一起完成了一项使命，
showing that women do have histories. 表明女性确实能创造历史。
I don't experience that as if, 我从未有过这种
you know, like a political experience. 你懂的，像是从政般的体验。
That's a deeply emotional experience 对我来说，这是一种非常感人的经历，
for me to feel like,you know, 让我觉得，
my history is part of the larger history also. 我的历史也是更大历史的一部分。
It was published in 1989. 这本书出版于1989年。
And even then,I said to myself, 即便如此，我对自己说，
this is not gonna last. 这不会持续太久。
I have to go back to the work that I had before 我必须回到我以前的工作中去谋生，
to make a living,this is for fun. 这只不过是，为了好玩。
And it took me from March until October 从3月到10月，我终于
to finally realize I could do this 意识到我可以
for the rest of my life...just write stories. 用我的余生，来做这件事…只写故事。
Tell me what you think your gift is 告诉我，你认为
that enables what you say to resonate with so many people. 你的天赋是什么，使你的作品，能引起这么多人的共鸣。
I think in part,it's nothing unusual. 我认为在某种程度上，这没什么不寻常的。
It's the fact that I'm a baby boomer. 我只是出生在战后婴儿潮。
I'm an American born in this country, 我是一个出生在这个国家的美国人，
and I'm a baby boomer,and I have feelings 我是战后婴儿潮一代的人，
that a lot of women my age have. 我有很多和我同龄的女性一样的感受。
And one of that is this fear of, 其中之一就是害怕，
what would I lose if I lost my mother? 如果我失去了母亲，我还会失去什么?
What do I lose by not knowing about the past? 不了解过去的经历，对我有什么损失呢?
"In me, they see their own daughters “在我身上，他们看到的是，如同看到自己的女儿
just as ignorant,just as unmindful 一样无知，一样不了解
of all the truths and hopes they had brought to America." 她们给美国带来的真理和希望。”
"They see daughters who grow impatient “他们看到的是，女儿们
when their mothers talk in Chinese, 在妈妈用中文说话时，变得不耐烦，
who think they're stupid when they explain things 在妈妈用蹩脚的英语解释事情时，
in fractured English." 觉得她们很笨。”
"They see that joy and luck “他们发现，快乐和幸运
did not mean the same to their daughters, 对自己的女儿，并不意味着同样的东西，
that to these closed American-born minds, 对这些土生土长的美国人来说，
joy luck is not a word." 快乐和幸运根本不是一个词。”
"It does not exist." “或许根本就不存在。”
"They see daughters who would bear grandchildren “他们看到，女儿生下的孙辈
born without any connecting hope 没有任何传承，没有把希望，
passed from generation to generation." 一代一代传下去。”
I was a voracious reader from an early age, 我从小就是一个如饥似渴的读者，
and she was the first Asian-American author 她是我读过的第一个
I had read. 亚裔美国作家。
And she was the first person that was 她是第一个让我回想起
reflecting back to me part of a world I knew. 我所熟知的那个世界的人。
She showed me the glamorous Shanghai of the 30s. 她给我展现了，30年代迷人的上海。
She showed me all these back stories that I knew about 她给我展现了，所有我所知道的
and could relate to from my family's story. 和我的家庭故事相关的背景故事。
And then the counterpoint of that 与之相对应的是
was to showcase the Asian-American experience, 展示亚裔美国人的经历，
the second generation of daughters 第二代女儿
who have to deal with these mothers who came from China. 不得不与来自中国的母亲打交道。
There were moments there that I could so relate to 作为一名移民，我在那里的一些时刻
as an immigrant. 很有共鸣。
"My mother saw danger in everything, “我母亲在一切事物中都看到危险，
even in other Chinese people." 甚至在其他中国人身上。”
"Where we lived and shopped, “在我们生活和购物的地方，
everyone spoke Cantonese or English." 每个人都说广东话或英语。”
"My mother was from Wuxi,near Shanghai, “我妈妈是无锡人，离上海很近，
so she spoke Mandarin and a little bit of..." 所以她会说普通话和一点…”
Being bi-cultural is an asset for a writer. 具有双重文化背景对作家来说是一种财富。
It gives you curiosity. 它给你好奇心。
You want to ask questions. 你会想问一些问题。
You want to understand deeply. 你会想要深入理解它。
And in the answers,you get stories. 在答案中，你会得到故事。
That's what Amy has been doing. 这就是恩美一直在做的。
She observes her mother, 她观察她的母亲，
and her aunts,and the culture, 她的阿姨，她的文化，
and at the same time,she totally belongs here. 与此同时，她完全融入了这里。
So it's in the contrast,in the complexity 所以正是在对比中，在复杂性中，
that she finds her language and her inspiration. 她找到了自己的语言和灵感。
Not to do any disservice to the amazing 这里，无意对恩美之前那些
Asian-American writers that came before Amy, 出色的亚裔美国作家，造成任何伤害，
but I think this was the first book to really 但我认为，这是第一本真正跨界
cross over into becoming 成为主流大众市场
a mainstream mass market success. 成功的书。
It had such a huge impact on paving the way 它为其他有色人种作家讲述他们的故事
for other writers of color to tell their stories. 铺平了道路，并对他们产生了巨大的影响。
When I actually was about to be published, 当我的书快要出版的时候，
I gave my mother the book to read, 我把这本书给了我妈妈看，
and her remark was,"It was so easy to read." 她的评价是:“它太容易读懂了。”
She, more than anyone,knew what was fiction 她比任何人都知道，这是一本小说，
and that it wasn't some sort of autobiography, 而不是某人的自传，
but she also knew the emotions,and the situations, 但她也了解，这个故事里我们嵌入的
the conflicts that we had that were embedded 情感发展、背景环境和冲突爆发等诸因素，
in the story and felt that I understood her completely. 她觉得我完全理解她。
She didn't have to tell me why she was angry 她不需要告诉我，她为什么生气
about things or why she was worried about me. 或者她为什么担心我。
It was all in the book. 一切都写在书里。
Amy and myself,we write about emotions 恩美和我，我们写情感
and relationships. 和关系。
And those are universal. 这些都是普世的。
So reading Amy,I realized that, wow, 所以读到恩美，我意识到，哇，
these people are just like me, 这些人就像我一样，
like,my Latin American family... 就像我的拉丁美洲家庭…
what's the difference? 有什么区别呢?
Those grandmothers are like my grandmother 这些祖母就像我的祖母，
and that makes it so close, 这让它在很多方面如此亲密，
so personal, 如此私人，
so touching in so many ways. 如此感人。
And I think that's what every reader feels 我想，这也是世界上任何地方
anywhere in the world in any language when they read Amy. 任何语言的读者，在读恩美作品时的感受。
You're gonna make the curry potato? 你要做咖喱土豆吗?
- Curry chicken potato. - Ooh, yum. -咖喱鸡土豆。—哦,好吃。
Then you have a garlic,onion, ginger. 那你要放的是大蒜，洋葱，姜。
It's Chinese cooking. 这是中国菜。
Your vegetable have to hot to seal them. 你的蔬菜必须加热，才能加盖焖煮。
If you don't seal them, 如果你不把它们焖烧，
you'll come up not right. 你端上来时，就达不到效果了。
No respect, huh? 真了不起，嗯？
Well, good evening, everyone, 大家晚上好，
and thanks for coming out on this rainy night 感谢大家在旧金山这个雨夜
in San Francisco. 来到这里。
I want to welcome you to the 25th anniversary 欢迎大家参加喜福会
of The Joy Luck Club. 25周年庆。
How about a round of applause? 来点掌声怎么样?
I remember when The Joy Luck movie came out. 我还记得电影《喜福会》上映的时候。
Now, the Joy Luck movie probably 《喜福会》这部电影对她的影响
did more for her than the book. 可能比这本书更大。
And it had all beautiful Asian actresses in it, 而且里面都是漂亮的亚洲女演员，
that was the first one of its kind that I can recall. 那是我记得的第一部。
I gave you my good skin... 我把我的好皮肤遗传给了你…
I must have seen it five times on the big screen. 我在大银幕上看了至少五遍。
This was back in Texas, 那是在德克萨斯州，
I was still living in Houston, 我还住在休斯顿，
and all my friends were white, 我所有的朋友都是白人，
but I was so proud to show them this movie, 但我很自豪能给他们看这部电影，
you know, of English speaking contemporary Asians. 你知道，讲英语的当代亚裔。
Because after the party, 因为派对结束后，
we're going to Lake Tahoe, 我们要去塔霍湖，
and he actually asked her to come with us. 他邀请她和我们一起去。
- Oh, great! - You'll have a great time. -哦,太棒了! -你会玩得很开心的。
Where's Jennifer? 詹妮弗在哪儿?
Oh, her Auntie Joan is putting her down for a nap. 她的琼阿姨在哄她睡午觉。
When I started to act in Hollywood, 当我开始在好莱坞表演时，许
many films were just coolies,or dragon ladies, 多电影都是关于苦力，或者母夜叉，
railroad workers,restaurant owners. 铁路工人，餐馆老板。
And I'm happy that 很高兴这部电影
this film portrayed Chinese as they are. 描绘了真实的中国人。
I really didn't register 我真的没有意识到，
how big this movie was gonna be, 这部电影会有这么大的影响力，
and what a long-lasting effect it would have 并且，它会在当时，对我们所有人的
on all of our lives at the time. 生活产生如此持久的影响。
Amy had the very straight bowl cut, 恩美剪的是非常直的碗形发型，
and such a woman of style and very, very... 她是这样一个有格调的女人，而且非常…
- So down to Earth. - Very down to Earth, -那么接地气。 -非常接地气，
but with a certain gravitas. 但又有一定的庄重。
When I first started writing, 当我第一次开始写作时，
I made this list of things 我列出了我作为一个作家应该成为
about who I should be as a writer 什么样的人的清单，
because I knew that it was very likely I would get 因为我知道我很可能会
sucked into all kinds of things 被各种各样的事情所吸引，
and lose my ways as a writer. 迷失了作为一个作家的方向。
So one of them was to make writing my focus, 其中之一就是把写作作为我的工作重点，
don't get involved with things like film. 而不是参与电影之类的事情。
Ron Bass, who is a screenwriter, 罗恩.巴斯，一个剧作家，
he said, "Well, why don't you take a scene and write it?" 他说:“嗯，你为什么不选一个场景写下来呢?”
And I said, "No, I'm not getting involved with this." 我说，“不，我不想涉足这个领域。”
I said, but I won't write the screenplay without you 我说，但我不会在没有你的情况下写剧本，
because it is not just a wonderful book, 因为这不仅是一本精彩的书，
it is an iconic book. 而且是一本表现型的书。
It is a book that has meaning to people of literature 这是一本对文学工作者
and people who are in your community. 和你所在社区的人，都有意义的书。
I need your voice. 我需要你发出声音。
And he said, "Well, just try it, you know." 他说，“那就试试吧，你知道的。”
"I'll be writing it,but you just do one scene, “我来写剧本，但你只负责写一个场景戏，
and I think you will learn something 我想你会学到如何
about earning a scene." 掌握一个场景戏。”
Now, that's like heroin for a writer, like, 这对作家来说就像海洛因，
earn the emotions of a scene. 就像在一个场景中获得情感。
So I thought, "Well, okay,I could do one scene." 所以我想，“好吧，我可以拍一场戏。”
And it went from there. 从那里开始。
And, action. 现在，开拍。
Here, she's got a book that is iconic. 在这里，她完成了一本表现型的书。
And I would make suggestions, 我会给她建议，
and she loved suggestions. 她喜欢建议。
And she would love to talk it through. 她很乐意和你商量。
She had no pride of anything like, 她没有任何骄傲，
you know,well, the public is going 你知道，公众会期待
to expect that this and this. 这个或那个。
No. Just what tells the story the best. 不。只要能最好地讲述故事。
My grades, my job, 我的成绩，我的工作，
not getting married, everything you expected of me. 不打算结婚，所有你对我的期望。
Not expect anything. 不是什么都指望。
Never expect. 永远不要去指望。
Only hope. 只是希望。
Only hoping best for you. 只希望你能过的更好。
I remember one night I went to the market 我记得有一天晚上我去了市场，
and after I've shopping, I go to my car, 买完东西后，我走向我的车，
I see one big man ran to me. 我看到一个大个子男人向我跑过来。
I was scared, and I was trying to holding on my... 我很害怕，我试着抓住我的…
my purse and ready for an attack or something. 我的钱包，准备好遭遇袭击什么的。
And the man said,"No, wait a minute, 那个人说:“不，等一下，
I just want to say...to thank you so much 我只是想说…非常感谢
for your character in The Joy Luck Club." 你在《喜福会》中的角色。”
"I cried and I cried.I just lost my mother." “我哭了一遍又一遍。我刚刚失去了我的母亲。”
"I lost my mother.And I see your scene, “我失去了母亲。我看到了你的场景，
and I just want to say thank you." 我只想说谢谢你。”
So I drive home,and tear came to my eyes. 于是我开车回家，泪水涌上了我的眼眶。
I realized that Joy Luck Club, 我意识到喜福会的故事
how wonderful the story is. 是多么精彩。
It's about the great relationship, 它是关于伟大的关系，
mother-daughter,or mother-children. 母亲和女儿，或母亲和孩子。
It doesn't matter that we are Asian or not Asian, 我们是不是亚洲人并不重要，
everybody has a mother. 每个人都有母亲。
June, since your baby time, 琼恩，当你还是婴儿时，
I wear this next to my heart. 我就把这个戴在胸口。
Now you wear next to yours. 现在，你把它贴身戴着。
It will help you know... 它会帮助你感知到…
I see you. 我看见你。
I see you. 我理解你。
That bad crab,only you try to take it. 那只坏螃蟹，只有你试着吃。…
Everybody else want best quality. 其他人都要挑那最好的吃。
When we went to the premiere in Hollywood, 我们去好莱坞参加首映礼的时候，
my mother was there. 我妈妈也在。
And I was a little afraid of what was going to happen 我有点害怕接下来会发生什么，
because there were scenes in that movie that were 因为电影里有一些场景
based on what had happened to her as a little girl. 是根据她小时候的经历改编的。
- Yeah.- Watching her mother die. -是的。 -看着她妈妈死去。
And the lights come up,end of the movie, 电影结束时，灯光亮了，
everybody's crying. 所有人都哭了。
And I look at her,and she's clear-eyed. 我看着她，她的眼睛很清晰。
And I said, "Are you okay, 我说:“你没事吧?
I mean, was that too sad or too harsh?" 我想问她，这是不是太悲伤或太残酷了?”
She goes, "Oh, no," you know, 她说:“哦，不，”你知道，
"everything in China are so much worse, this already better." “（旧）中国的一切比这差多了，电影中已经好多了。”
And I thought, okay. 我想，那就好吧。
One of the things for Amy is that early success 对恩美来说，早期的成功是如此巨大，
was so huge that she had to feel, well, now, 那么现在，她不得不考虑一件事，
how do you follow that? 如何使之继续下去?
Was it scary to follow up a hit 延续《喜福会》这样的成功，
- like The Joy Luck Club? - Um, scary isn't the word. -是不是很可怕? -呃，不能说是可怕。
I think it was more like near-death throes. 我觉得更像是濒死的痛苦。
After I wrote The Joy Luck Club, 写完《喜福会》后，
I was stuck. 我被困住了。
I made probably seven starts at a novel 一本小说我写了大概七次开头，
and abandoned them all. 然后全部放弃了。
Meanwhile, my mother is saying,"Write my true story." 与此同时，我妈妈说:“写我的真实故事。”
She had read The Joy Luck Club, 她读过《喜福会》，
but she knew it was fiction. 但她知道那是虚构的。
She wanted to be able to tell..."Yeah, this is my story." 她想要能够讲述出来……“是的，这就是我的故事。”
And I said, "You know, Ma, it's not how fiction is written. 我说:“你知道吗，妈妈，小说不是这样写的。
It's not really about true stories and..." 它不是真实的故事，而且…”
But when I got stuck,I thought, 但当我陷入困境时，我想，
you know, "What is the reason for me to write this?" 你们也想知道，“我写这些东西的原因是什么?”
It's really to understand myself 真正的目的是，了解我自己以及
and how I came to have these thoughts. 我是如何产生这些想法的。
And it's also to give my mother a gift 也是为了给我妈妈一个礼物，
that I was really listening. 让她知道，我真的在认真听。
So I said that's what I'm gonna do. 所以，我说我要这么做。
That man. Wicked man.So bad, you know. 那个人。邪恶的人。太恶劣了，你知道的。
And have to cheating people to marry him you know, 还得骗别的姑娘嫁给他，
like this or the... not,'cause I'm the marriage, 就像这样不是，因为我还和他有婚姻关系，
the other one's not marriage,it's a relationship. 另一个不但没有任何婚姻，而且乱搞的关系。
Somebody believe him, you know. 你知道吗？有些女孩子居然相信了他。
She loved the idea she was helping me, to write. 她想要让我，把她跟我讲的想法，写出来。
You know, she'd call me up at different hours of the day to... 你知道，她会在一天的不同时间给我打电话…
"I have something else to say." “我还有话要说。”
And she'd go on for an hour,and I said, you know... 她会这样讲下一个小时，最后我说，你懂的...
I didn't want to get her upset... 我不想让她生气…
but I said, "I have to get some work done." 但我说:“我还有别的事情要做。”
"Oh, okay, okay." “好吧，好吧，好的。”
Must be something you don't want to 他一定使用了你想不到的手段
- lure her to give a sex scene. - Mm-hmm. -来引诱她进行一场性爱戏。 -嗯，嗯。
He one time... he wanted three to sleep together like this, 他有一次……他想要三个人像这样睡在一起，
- I told you before, huh? - Mm, mm-hmm. -我之前告诉过你，对吧? -嗯，嗯-嗯。
And then I refused. 我立即拒绝了。
"I remembered the many nights he used my body “我记得有多少个夜晚，他在和另一个女人
after he had already been with another woman." 搞完后，还要拿我的身体泄欲。”
"He even brought a woman right to our bed “他甚至把一个女人带到我们的床上，
and forced me to watch." 强迫我旁观。”
"Of course, I did not, “我当然没有去看，
but I could not shut my ears." 但我无法闭上耳朵。”
You can see when I talk I'm angry, all right? 你看我说话的时候很生气，对吧？
That angry never get out. 这种愤怒永远不会消褪。
"So many years gone by, “这么多年过去了，
and still the anger can never come out completely." 但愤怒永远无法完全发泄出来。”
"You can hear this in my voice." “你可以从我的声音里听出来。”
I'm the one, unfortunately,like this used like a machine. 不幸的是，我就是那个像机器一样被利用的人。
"That bad man was using my body." “那个恶人在利用我的身体。”
"Every night he used it as if I were, what? A machine!" “每天晚上他都用它，好像我是——什么?一台机器吗!”
《灶神之妻》作者：谭恩美 1991年
So you've, you've done it. 所以你已经做到了。
You've finished book number two. 你已经完成了第二本书。
- Finally.- My next guest's -终于。 -我的第二位嘉宾的
second novel,The Kitchen God's Wife, 第二本小说，《灶神之妻》，
is still number one on the New York Times 在《纽约时报》畅销书排名中
bestseller list this week. 这周依然位居榜首。
It has been for the last seven weeks. 已经连续七周了。
Please welcome Amy Tan. 有请谭恩美。
Her second novel looks as though it's gonna be 她的第二部小说看起来会比
an even bigger smash than the first book. 第一本书更受欢迎。
"I've told you about the early days “我告诉了你我婚姻
of my marriage so you can understand why I became 早期的状况，这样你就能理解，
weak and strong at the same time." 为什么我同时变得，既弱又强。”
What else struck you, Amy,about your mom's upbringing? 恩美，你对你妈妈的对你的教养，还有什么印象?
Was it the repression that she experienced? 是她所经历的压抑吗?
It, it was repression. It was... 这是一种压抑。这是…
but it was also her strength that she never gave up. 但永不放弃，也是她的力量。
Even though she lived in a society that 尽管她生活的社会，
offered her no choices, 没有给她选择，
that gave her unbelievable sorrow, 只带给她难以置信的悲痛，
she somehow could find a strength and rise above that. 但她总能找到一种力量，并从中崛起。
I couldn't speak English at all. 我一点儿都不会英语。
Couldn't read A, B, C, D. 都不会念A, B, C, D.
Chinese Americans are becoming 华裔美国人
an increasingly dynamic and visible element 在商业、科学、艺术和文学方面，
of American society in business, science, 正在成为美国社会中日益活跃和
the arts,and literature. 可见的因素。
We have the views of novelist Amy Tan who was born... 我们有小说家谭恩美的观点，
The Chinese American community, uh, 她出生在华人社区
has been a great success in North America. 在北美取得了巨大的成功。
So when you started writing,did you feel that suddenly 当你开始写作时，你有没有突然觉得，
you were responsible, somehow,to the history of, you know, 你要对你们在美国的同胞，负有一种
your people in the United States, 历史的责任，
if such a thing is possible? 如果这样做，是有可能的话？
Well, first, let me say that when I... 首先，允许我坦言...
when I think about "your people," 当你说“你们的同胞”时，
I think of myself as being an American as well. 我自己想到的是，我们都是美国人。
And so "your" includes both being Chinese and American, 而且，你说的“你们”既包括了华人，也包括了美国人，
or Chinese-American,or whatever. 或者说是美籍华人，无论怎么称呼。
I didn't seek to be a politician. 我并没有想要成为一名政治家。
I didn't seek to be a representative 我并不想成为整个
of a whole community of people. 华人社区的代表。
I just hope to write some good stories. 我只是希望写一些好故事。
And yet, when I was given this mantle 然而，当我被赋予
of speaking for the Asian-American community, 代表亚裔美国人群体发言的重任时，
suddenly, there were these expectations. 突然之间，人们产生了这些期望。
I started getting a lot of criticism. 我开始受到很多批评。
Some said I did it wrong, 有些人说我做错了，
that I had created stereotypes, 因为我创造出了一个模式，
and pander to those mothers speaking in broken English, 迎合了那些英语讲得很糟糕的妈妈们，
or concubines who had killed themselves, 或者曾经企图自杀过的姨太太们，
you know,these were stereotypes. 你要知道，这些都是模式化的东西。
"The chapter opens with language highly reminiscent 这一章开篇的语言，很容易让人联想到
of fortune cookie wisdom, 幸运饼干（中餐馆里一道甜食）的智慧、
Charlie Chan aphorisms,and the kind of 陈查理（小说里的虚构华裔形象）的格言，以及
Taoist precepts scattered throughout 在林语堂的《唐人街家族》(1948年写的小说)
"Lin Yutang's'Chinatown Family.'" 中的道家箴言。'”
"Tan inscribes Kwan with the linguistic exoticism “谭恩美赋予关（素媛扮演者，越南裔）语言上的异域风情，
that could only stem from an outsider's ears." 只有知根知底的人才能听懂。”
"Tan's success hinges on her ability to revive “谭的成功在于她有能力复活
Orientalist tropes as if she rejects them." 东方式的隐喻，就好像她拒绝别人一样。”
"Amy Tan opens her Joy Luck Club “谭恩美在《喜福会》的开篇
with a fake Chinese fairy tale." 用了一个虚构的中国童话传说。”
"The fairy tale is not Chinese, “这个童话故事不是中国人的，
but white racist." 而是白人种族主义者的。”
In the beginning,I didn't know what to say. 一开始，我不知道该说什么。
I would be caught off-guard. 我简直措手不及。
But then I realized,what they wanted, 但后来我意识到，他们真正想要的，
really, was role models. 是要树立一个榜样。
They wanted me to right the social wrongs, 他们希望我纠正社会的错误，
the social injustices. 解决社会的不公。
And finally, they had somebody in the limelight who should 现在，他们找到了这样一位引人注目的人物，
now address that and not be pandering, 可这个人只是在陈述，而不是迎合
so to speak,to the mainstream. 他们的“主流”期盼。
What they were asking me to do was to write propaganda. 他们让我做的是写宣传。
When you occupy a space that has rarely been occupied... 当你到达了一个罕有人至的位置上...
now, we're talking 30 years ago... 我此时说的是，我30年前...
that that is going to be placed on you naturally, 这个重任就自然而然地，落在了你的头上，
and I understand it. 这一点，我能理解。
But to be true to myself, 但真实的我，
I could not give in to that kind of pressure. 是不会向那个压力屈服的。
The moment you start mixing activism and writing, 当你开始把行动主义和写作混在一起的时候，
then you're not writing fiction anymore, 你就不再是写小说了，
or not good fiction. 或者说，写不出好小说。
And I think that Amy has that very clear. 我想恩美已经说得很清楚了。
The crazy thing about fiction 小说的疯狂之处在于
is it is a representation, 它是一种表征，
the deepest representation of truth you can find. 是你能找到的对真相最深刻的表征。
It's not limited to facts. 它并不局限于事实。
It has really to do with human nature. 这真的与人性有关。
And so, my mother speaks broken English. 所以，我妈妈说着蹩脚的英语。
My grandmother was a concubine who killed themselves. 我祖母是一个自杀的姨太太。
And I said,"You have to write 我说:“你必须写
what's personally important to you." 对你个人重要的东西。”
Every author has the same need 每个作家都有
to understand their own lives. 理解自己生活的需求。
Who are the characters in Amy's work? 恩美作品中的人物是谁?
Her family and people who really 她的家人和那些
have gone through hell 经历过地狱的人
and somehow have come out of it. 不管怎么样，都出来了。
And I don't think it's a conscious choice. 我不认为，这是一个有意识的选择。
It's the way it is, 事情就是这样，
because we are surrounded by those people. 因为我们周围都是那些人。
We belong there. 我们属于那里。
In a way,we are one of them. 在某种程度上，我们也是他们中的一员。
We have a legacy of trauma and tragedy, 我们留下了创伤和悲剧的遗产，
suicide, rape, children left behind in China. 自杀，强奸，把儿童留在中国。
It's embedded in me. 它已经嵌入我的内心了。
And I don't always know how it is embedded 我并不总是知道，它是如何嵌入的，
until something comes out and clicks and makes me respond, 直到有东西出现，催赶着我，让我做出回应，
and not always in a good way. 并不总是好的方式。
"I have had bouts of depression in the past." “我过去也有过抑郁症。”
"They had occurred after big changes in my life, “它们发生在我生活发生重大变化之后，
which should have been happy periods, 那些本该是快乐的时期，
including the unanticipated success 包括我的第一本书《喜福会》
of my first book,The Joy Luck Club." 出人意料的成功。”
"On the day my book was published, I cried." “我的书出版那天，我哭了。”
"They were not tears of joy for a dream come true." “并不是梦想成真后的喜极而泣。”
"I was afraid." “我当时害怕了。”
"I was overwhelmed with a sense that this book “我被一种感觉淹没了，这本书
would upend the happiness I already had." 将颠覆我已经拥有的幸福。”
"Everyone expected too much, “每个人都期望过高，
and I was certain I would fail." 我当时就确信自己也会失败。”
You're uncomfortable with success. 你对成功感到不舒服。
We just have a few seconds.Are you getting used to it now? 我们只谈了了一会儿。你现在习惯了吗?
I don't think I'll ever get used to it. 我觉得我永远都不会习惯。
I don't think I should.But it's been wonderful... 我觉得，我不应该这样。但一切都很很美好了…
a wonderful reception to both books. 两本书都很受欢迎。
Well, we're certainly very glad 你的成功，
that you've been successful. 我们当然很高兴。
We look forward to your next novel. 我们期待你的下一部小说。
I don't wanna give you an anxiety attack, 我不想让你焦虑，
but hopefully,we'll talk then. 但希望到时候，我们再能谈谈。
- Amy Tan, thanks so much.- Thank you. -谭恩美，非常感谢。 -谢谢。
Then Amy Tan wrote a children's book, 后来谭恩美写了一本儿童读物
The Moon Lady. 《月亮夫人》。
The latest book is another children's book 最新出版的是另一本儿童读物
called The Chinese Siamese Cat. 《中国暹罗猫》。
"Just like our ancestor,Sagwa of China." “就像我们的祖先，中国的“傻瓜”一样。”
- And that's the end.- Wow. -就这样结束了。 —哇。
That is one of the best stories Elmo has ever had, Amy. 那是埃尔莫听过的最好的故事之一，恩美。
As a short story writer,I've never had expectations. 作为一个短篇小说作家，我从来没有期望。
And you learn to work without expectations 你要学会不抱任何期望地工作
just for the joy of it, you know? 只是为了从中获得乐趣，你知道吗?
I think Amy is unusual in that 我认为恩美不同寻常，
she's had more expectations than any writer I've known. 因为她比我所知道的任何作家，都有更多的期待。
And if there was just pressure to keep doing this. 如果只是有压力，才能让我继续做下去。
My first guest is already one of the world's 我的第一位嘉宾已经是世界著名的
leading female authors. 女性作家之一。
She's written a third book, 她写了第三本书，
The Hundred Secret Senses. 《一百种神秘的感觉》。
Family used to always ask me, "Where's Amy?" 家人以前总是问我"恩美呢"
And I said, "Well,how would I know?" 我说，“那我怎么知道呢?”
And then she'll end up on some TV show. 然后，她就会上什么电视节目了。
Ms. Tan, I loved The Joy Luck Club. 谭女士，我喜欢喜福会。
You really showed me how the mother-daughter bond 你向我展示了母女关系是
can triumph over adversity. 如何战胜逆境的。
No, that's not what I meant at all. 不，我不是这个意思。
You couldn't have gotten it more wrong. 你真是大错特错了。
- But... - Please, just sit down. -但是… -请坐下吧。
I'm embarrassed for both of us. 我为我们俩，感到尴尬。
Her books have sold more than five million copies 她的书被翻译成35种不同的语言，
worldwide, translated into 35 different languages. 在全球销售了500多万册。
The Hundred Secret Senses as the characters... 《一百种神秘的感觉》的角色是…
Over the years,with each book, 多年来，每出版一本书，
she realized how much time 她都意识到自己花在
was being taken away from writing. 写作上的时间有多少。
She knew that she had to be pretty public 她知道她必须公开地，
and show appreciation to her readers, 向她的读者表示感谢，
which she's so great about. 这一点她做得很好。
She will take the time to sign.She'll take the time to talk. 她会花时间签字的。她会花时间谈话的。
Oh, this is for my daughter Katie, she said... 哦，这是给我女儿凯蒂的，她说…
When I was young, I really craved privacy. 当我年轻的时候，我非常渴望隐私。
And I think it was in part to get away from demands 我认为这在一定程度上是，为了逃避诉求
and family chaos. 和家庭的扰乱。
And I would go in my room,and I would draw. 然后我回到自己的房间，开始画画。
And that is something I had with my fiction at one time. 我的小说也曾有过这样的经历。
It was private. 这是属于个人的。
And I wrote it for my own reasons 我写这本书
to be in that place. 是出于我自己的原因。
And when you have a lot of expectations, 当你有很多期待的时候，
the little private room 小私人房间里
is very crowded with editors, 挤满了编辑、
and agents, and fans,and detractors. 经纪人、粉丝和评论者。
And all of that made it very difficult to write. 所有这些都让写作变得非常困难。
I was writing in a...at a different place. 我在写…在不同的地方。
It was not as meditative. 它不像冥想。
It was full of anxiety. 它充满了焦虑。
I felt the burden of expectations a lot. 我感到了很多期望的负担。
One of the main achievements of this band 这支乐队多年来的主要成就之一，
over the years has been to reduce 就是把谭恩美的名声
the reputation of Amy Tan to rubble. 打得粉碎。
We're gonna bring Amy Tan out to do a song where 我们要请谭恩美来唱首歌
she reveals her inner bad girl. 让她展示自己内心的坏女孩。
[playing "These Boots Are Made for Walkin'" [播放着“这些靴子是为走路而生的”]
你一直说要有东西给我
你所谓的爱不过是坦白
My friend Kathi said,"You know, 我的朋友凯西说:“你知道，
I'm thinking of putting together a rock band. 我在考虑组建一支摇滚乐队。
What do you think?" 你认为如何？”
And without thinking, I just said, "Yeah, sure." 我想都没想就说:“当然可以。”
The band was started by a woman 这个乐队是由一个叫凯西·卡门·戈德马克
named Kathi Kamen Goldmark, 的女人创立的，
who was a literary escort in San Francisco. 她曾是旧金山的一个文艺女青年。
She, over the years had met many authors, 多年来，她认识了许多作家，
me being one, who had 我就是其中之一，
been in bands at one point or another, 他们或多或少都加入过乐队，
or who wanted to have been in bands. 或想加入乐队。
So she came up with the idea of starting... 1992年，她蹦出了这个想法…
of having all-author rock band 邀请全由作家组成一支摇滚乐队
perform in Anaheim, California,in 1992. 在加州阿纳海姆演出。
And so she sent faxes out to every author she knew, 于是她给所有认识的作家发了传真，
and the ones who answered "yes" became the band. 回答“是”的人就组成了一个乐队。
And Stephen King was one of those authors, 斯蒂芬·金是这些作家中的一个，
Ridley Pearson, Amy Tan. 还有雷德利·皮尔森，谭恩美。
People were laughing,and they were dancing, 人们在笑，他们在跳舞，
and we pretty quickly decided we had to do this again. 我们很快，决定我们必须再举办一次。
In the next year we went on a... 第二年我们去了一个…
like, a multi-city tour,and we were still terrible. 就像一场多城市的巡演，尽管，我们表现还是很糟糕。
We got a little bit better. 我们只改进了一点点。
We all just loved it. 我们都很喜欢这样。
And I realized this was my outlet 我意识到，这是我的发泄口，
for the kind of boxed-in feeling 发泄那种在公共场合
of being in public because there are no expectations. 被禁锢的感觉，因为这种演出，没有收什么期待。
There is no reviewer. 也不会有什么文艺评论家。
It was just for the fun of doing it. 只是为了好玩而已。
And that was immediate, 这是立竿见影的，
and it was exhilarating. 令人振奋。
You couldn't expect it. 你不能指望它。
What Amy has told me is that 恩美告诉我的是，
to come out and dress like she's hot shit 走上舞台，穿得像个辣妹，
and just carry a whip was so liberating for her. 只拿着鞭子，对她来说是如此的自由。
我们为什么不在路上做
没人会看到我们
我们为什么不在路上做
I feel like to have fun, 我想玩得开心，
I sometimes have to take risks. 有时我不得不冒点风险。
Being in the band taught me that 在乐队的经历让我明白，
you have to go beyond 你必须超越
what you're comfortable with 令自己轻松的样子，
and you can't just imagine 你不能只想
the dangerous and the horrible things that could 在结束时可能会发生
happen at the end of it as a consequence. 危险和可怕的事情。
You have to just be there and have a great time. 你就是要在舞台上，度过美妙的一段时光。
And with a lot of risky things, 有了很多有敢冒风险的事情，
the potential for having fun 获得乐趣的潜力
is so much greater because you find 就会大得多，因为你会
these things in yourself where you just have 在自己身上发现这些事情，
to go to an extreme. 你只需跨过一个极限。
I used to be scared of swimming in the ocean. 我过去很害怕在海里游泳。
I would never do it because I imagined 我永远不会这么做，因为我想象着
that there were all these scary things under there. 下面有那么多可怕的东西。
I was my mother's daughter imagining dangers, 我曾是妈妈的乖女儿，幻想着如果发生了危险，
I would die horrible death. 我会死得很惨。
And then one day, I actually looked under 后来有一天，我用潜水镜往下看，
with goggles,and I saw this beauty. 我看到了这个美景。
And it built from there until more recently, 从那时开始，直到最近，
I went swimming with sharks, 我和鲨鱼一起游泳，
I'd watch these sharks looking at me 我看着这些鲨鱼看着我，
like, "Who are you? 就像在说:“你是谁?
What are you doing here?" 在这里做什么？”
I just love that. 我只是喜欢这样。
Okay. There was,no purchases made 好的。自从我们上次见面以来，
since our last meeting, 没有购买过任何东西，
but I have deposited the 600 collected last meeting. 但我已经存入了上次会议收取的600美元。
"In 1995, my mother had been diagnosed “1995年，我母亲被诊断出
with Alzheimer's disease." 患有老年痴呆症。”
"She was several months shy of her 80th birthday." “她还有几个月就要过80岁生日了。”
"The plaques on her brain had likely “她大脑上的斑块可能在多年前
started to accumulate years before, 就开始积聚了，
but we never would have recognized the signs." 但我们永远不会识别出这些迹象。”
"'Language difficulties,gets into arguments, “‘语言障碍、爱争吵、
poor judgment...those were traits 判断力差……这些都是我母亲
my mother had shown her entire life." 从小到大展现出来的特质。”
"How could we distinguish between “我们如何区分
a chronically difficult personality 长期难相处的性格和
and a dementing one?" 精神错乱的性格?”
When her mother was developing Alzheimer's, 当她的母亲患上阿尔茨海默氏症时，
I'd say the worst part of that time 我想说，最糟糕的时间是是，
is when the person who is suffering from it 患者明明知道
knows that things aren't right, 事情不对劲，
but has enough intact mentally for it to really haunt them. 但精神上足够完整，这真的会困扰他们。
"We were eating dinner in a restaurant “我们在一家餐厅吃晚饭，
and she was obsessing about a family member 她一直在为一个
who she believed did not respect her." 她认为不尊重她的家庭成员而烦恼。”
"Lou, my brother, and I didn't exactly disagree with her." “卢、我弟弟和我，对她的看法并不完全不同。”
"The trouble was we didn't wholeheartedly agree." “问题是我们并没有完全一致。”
"Her anger mounted until she leapt up from the table “她越来越生气，最后她从桌子上跳起来，
and ran out of the crowded restaurant 跑出了拥挤的餐厅，
with us chasing after her." 我们在后面追着她。”
She went charging out of the restaurant 她刚冲出餐厅
to get ran over in traffic. 就被车撞了。
And as far as I could tell, 据我所知，
she was ready to act on it. 她已经准备好采取行动了。
And I went chasing out after her, 我去追她，
and I picked her up and carried her back to the car. 我把她抱起来，把她抱回车上。
I think it was just an urge she would 我认为这只是一种她
never be able to get rid of probably as... 永远无法摆脱的冲动，可能因为…
as strong as alcohol is to an alcoholic or, 就像酒精之于酒鬼，或者
you know, cocaine to a cocaine addict. 可卡因之于可卡因成瘾者。
It's not something you could just say 这并不是说
you don't have to do this anymore, 你不用再这样做了，
your life is happy. 你的生活很幸福。
You don't have to threaten anymore. 你不用再威胁我了。
It was... it was an impulse. 这是…这是一时冲动。
It was a desire 那是一种
that just came up from her she couldn't control. 她无法控制的欲望。
I'm a different person than I was from my last book, 我和上一本书里的我完全不同了，
only because I've gone through more of life. 只是因为我经历了更多的人生。
"Ruth was amazed at what her mother could recall." "露丝惊讶于她母亲的回忆"
"She knew not to expect LuLing to remember appointments “她知道不要指望陆玲记得约会
or facts about a recent event." 或最近发生的事情。”
"But her mother often surprised her with “但当她谈起自己的青年时代时，
"he clarity of her emotions 她的母亲总是能清晰地表达自己的情感，
when she spoke of her youth." 这常常使她感到惊讶。”
"It didn't matter that she blurred “她模糊了一些细节，
some of the finer points." 但这无关紧要。”
"The past, even revised,was meaningful." “过去，即使经过修改，也是有意义的。”
This book is about memory, 这本书是关于记忆的，
losing memories and trying to hang on 关于失去记忆，以及试图留住
to certain memories and so it is intensely personal 某些记忆，所以它非常个人化地
about the things I went through over the last five years. 讲述了我过去五年所经历的事情。
"After all, Bao Bomu says, “毕竟，鲍博木说，
'What is the past but what we choose to remember?' ‘如果不是我们选择记住的，过去是什么?’
"They can choose not to hide it, 他们可以选择不隐藏它，
to take what's broken, 接受破碎的东西，
to feel the pain and know that it will heal." 感受痛苦，并知道它会愈合。”
- Hi. - Hi. -嗨。 -嗨。
- So nice to meet you.- Nice to meet you. -很高兴见到你。-见到你很高兴。
We all have... 我们都有…
Thank you so much for paving the way 非常感谢你，为亚裔美国人
for Asian-American representation 在写作和艺术领域表现
in writing and in art. 铺平了道路。
Are you in writing...are you writers? 你们是在写作...你们是作家吗?
We're all aspiring creatives. 我们都是有抱负的创意者。
You mean you're not in pre-med or... 你是说,你不是医学预科,还是…
- No. - No. -不。 -不。
- She is. - Oh, you are? Okay. -她是。 -哦，你是？好吧。
You have to have one. 必须给你们签一个。
- Thank you. - Sure. -谢谢你。 -应该的。
Thank you. 谢谢。
- And for you as well.- Yeah. -也必须给你签名。 -好的。
"At the end of June 2001, “2001年6月底，
after a four-month book tour that had taken me 在为期4个月的新书巡回推销活动之后，
to 40 cities across the United States, 我走遍了美国的40个城市，
then to a dozen more in the United Kingdom, 然后又去了英国、
the Republic of Ireland, 爱尔兰共和国、
Australia and New Zealand, 澳大利亚和新西兰的12个城市，
"I returned home to San Francisco." 回到了旧金山的家。”
"I lowered the shades,crawled into bed, “我放下窗帘，爬上床，
and began the long rest I felt I deserved." 开始了我认为自己应得的漫长休息。”
"I slept for nearly 24 hours that first day." “第一天我睡了将近24个小时。”
"After the tour, I told my husband, Lou, “旅程结束后，我告诉我的丈夫卢(Lou)，
that I felt as if something in my body had broken, 我觉得我身体里，好像有什么东西坏了，
something was not right." 有些不对劲。”
There were these times where she'd be 有时候她
really quiet and disengaged, 会非常安静，心不在焉，
and I would wonder if it was me, 我就会怀疑，是不是因为我，
our relationship. 使我们的关系出现问题。
She was just ill and didn't know it. 她只是病了，自己却不知道。
I started running red lights and stopping at green lights. 我开始闯红灯，遇到绿灯就停下来。
I would get lost and suddenly find 我会迷路，突然发觉
that I didn't recognize where I was. 我不认识自己在哪里。
Soon, the hallucinations started. 很快，幻觉开始出现了。
"Some switch in my brain that controlled dreams “当我睁开眼睛时，我大脑中
now seemed to fail to turn off once I open my eyes." 控制梦境的某个开关，似乎无法关闭。”
"And before me would spring forth "在我面前出现的将是
the embodiment of my nightmares." 我噩梦的化身"
"I would whisper,'Who's there?'" “我会小声问，‘谁在那儿?’”
"And the dogs would instantly leap to attention, “狗狗会立刻集中注意力，
scan the room, sniff the air." 扫视房间，嗅嗅空气。”
"When they settled back to sleep, so would I." “等他们睡着了，我也会睡着的。”
"That is, I would try to sleep after having seen a corpse “也就是说，当努力入睡时，我会看到一具尸体
lying next to me 躺在我身边，
or a pudgy poodle dangling from the ceiling." 或者一只矮胖的狮子狗，在天花板上晃来晃去。”
At the worst, I would say, 最糟糕的是，我要说，
it had to do with feeling 它已经使得我
that I was losing my mind. 快要发疯了。
I know what it feels like to have Alzheimer's. 我知道患老年痴呆症是什么感觉。
I couldn't read. I couldn't remember anything. 我不能阅读。我什么都不记得了。
I couldn't speak. 我说不出话。
At the time, we were perplexed and, you know, 当时，我们都很困惑，你知道，
I was mystified, but I know 我也很困惑，但我事后
with hindsight exactly what happened. 知道发生了什么。
We attended her editor's daughter's wedding 1999年，我们在纽约的哈德逊河上
on the Hudson River in New York in 1999, 参加了她编辑女儿的婚礼，
and she had a tick infect her from that afternoon, 从那天下午开始，她就被蜱类虫感染了，
although she didn't know that at the time. 虽然她当时并不知道。
It was only when Tan went on the Internet 直到谭恩美上网，
and saw a tick rash like this one 看到了像这样的蜱疹，
that answers started to come. 她才找到答案。
And I said, "Oh my God, 我说，“天哪，
that is the rash that I had on my leg four years ago." 这是四年前我腿上的疹子。”
What several doctors who misdiagnosed her 误诊她的几位医生不知道的是，
didn't know was Tan had been bitten by a tick this tiny. 谭恩美被一只这么小的蜱虫咬了。
It infected her with Lyme disease. 这让她感染了莱姆病
As soon as I started taking medication, 我一开始服药，
the anxiety went away completely. 焦虑就完全消失了。
No amount of therapy would have done that. 再多的治疗也做不到。
It had to be medication to get rid of Lyme disease. 必须通过药物治疗来摆脱莱姆病。
And it was because it went into my brain, 因为它进入了我的大脑，
and it caused brain inflammation, 引起了大脑炎症，
it caused scarring in my brain, 在我的大脑中留下了疤痕，
and the reason I have epilepsy. 这就是我得癫痫的原因。
That Lyme disease,it went after her. 莱姆病，一直侵扰着她。
So that set her back, 这让她很沮丧，
but she is incredibly tough and resilient. 但她非常坚韧。
It's her first non-fiction book 这是她的第一本非小说类书籍，
called The Opposite of Fate: A Book of Musings. 名为《命运的反面:一本沉思之书》。
The book is called Saving Fish from Drowning. 这本书叫做《救溺水的鱼》。
- Amy Tan, good morning. - Good morning. -谭恩美，早上好。 —早上好。
- Great to see you.- Good to be here. -很高兴见到你。 -很高兴来到这里。
We haven't seen anything from you in eight years, 我们已经八年没见过你的消息了，
so what took you so long? 你怎么这么久才来?
I started one book,and then I, 我开始写一本书，然后我，
suddenly, I saw something, a family mystery developed 突然，我看到了一些东西，一个家庭谜案发生了，
and I had to start another book. 我不得不开始写另一本书。
It's called The Valley of Amazement. 它叫做《惊奇谷》。
It goes on sale tomorrow. You can- 明天开始销售。你可以-
I probably learned as much working with Amy 和恩美一起写书，我学到的东西
on her books than I have any other writer. 可能比其他任何作家都多。
For Amy, actual writing is not a challenge 对恩美来说，真正的写作并不是挑战，
because she's so fluid and so good 因为她文笔非常流畅，非常擅长
at getting down what she knows she needs to get down. 写下她知道她需要写下的东西。
And she's got such a good ear for language. 她对语言有很好的鉴赏力。
She hears the language in a way 她以诗人的方式
that a poet hears it. 来聆听语言。
I think the biggest challenge 我认为最大的挑战
is a psychological one,that is, writing. 是心理上的，也就是写作。
Not the writing.It's just writing. 不管写的什么。只要在写作。
What's this? It's... 这是什么？这是...
Oh, that's a sonata? 哦，是这首奏鸣曲？
I'd like that. 我喜欢这曲子。
One day, I got a phone call. 有一天，我接到一个电话。
I don't know how long it was into her Alzheimer's. 我不知道她患上老年痴呆多久了。
I would say it was at least two years into it. 我觉得至少有两年了。
At that point, she didn't remember a lot of things. 那时，她不记得很多事情。
She was not that verbal. 她语无伦次。
And her voice sounded like her voice from the past. 她的声音听起来，就像她以往的声音。
She said, "Amy, Amy I... I... I don't know where I am. 她说:“恩美，恩美，我……我…我不知道我在哪里。
I'm scared.I think I'm going crazy." 我很害怕。我想我要疯了。”
And I had not heard her talk like that. 我从来没听过她那样说话。
And it was like she had come up from out 她就像从海洋深处
of the deep of the ocean, 浮上来一样，
and she was, like, flailing 拼命挣扎，
and trying not to drown again. 努力不让自己再次被淹死。
She said... and I said, "You know, 她还想说… 我说:“你知道，
we often can't remember where we are. 我们也经常记不住我们在哪里。
Don't worry about it. You're fine." 别担心。你没事的。”
And she said, "No, no, no. 她说，“不，不，不。
Something is wrong with my mind." 我脑子出问题了。”
And... and then she said, 接着… 接着她说道:
"I just wanna tell you that..." “我只是想告诉你……”
"I know I did some things to hurt you," "我知道，我做了一些伤害你的事"
And... 接着...
And I was saying, "No, no, 接着我说，“不，不，
don't worry about it,it's fine." 别担心，都会没事的。”
She said, "I know I did some things to hurt you", 她说"我知道，我做了一些伤害你的事"，
and I don't remember what they are, 但我已经不记得是什么事了，
but I know I hurt you, 但我知道我伤害过你，
and I just want to say 只是想说，
I'm sorry and... 我很抱歉并...
I'm sorry, and I hope that you'll forget 我很抱歉，我希望你能忘记，
"just as I forgot." “就像我忘记了那样。”
And I don't know what she was remembering, 我不知道她记起了什么，
but it was enough to erase everything, 但那足以盖过过去的一切，
everything that I had ever been hurt... 盖过我曾经受过的一切伤害…
you know, that she'd done to hurt me. 你懂的，就是以往她做的，伤害我的事。
Um, and then she was gone, 嗯，然后她就神志不清了，
she was gone again, 她再次神志不清，
and she didn't talk like that. 而且她不是那样说话了。
She was again, 她又照旧语无伦次了，
incoherent, unable to say complete sentences. 说不出完整的句子。
It was a gift. 这算是一份礼物吧。
Shortly afterward, 此后不久，
my mother fell into a coma, 我母亲陷入了昏迷，
10-20 family members 10到20位家人
were in her rooms at all hours. 一直守在她的房间里。
We played poker, mahjong, 我们打扑克，打麻将，
we eat pizza and Chinese takeout. 吃披萨和中餐外卖。
We played videos of her favorite movies. 我们播放了她最喜欢的电影的视频。
I put on a CD of Chopin piano music 我放上一张肖邦的钢琴曲CD，
and whispered in her ear, 在她耳边小声说:
"That's me playing, I've been practicing harder." “那是我在弹，我一直在努力练习。”
Where the Past Begins,A Writer's Memoir, 《过去从哪里开始，一个作家的回忆录》，
you actually call this an unintended memoir. 你实际上称它为一本无意的回忆录。
When did you realize that's what you were actually doing? 你什么时候意识到你在做什么?
I was going to write a book about writing. 我打算写一本关于写作的书。
You know,how does the mind work? 你想知道，这个想法是怎么形成的吗？
How does my writer's mind work, 我作家的思维，是如何运用我的
creativity, imagination. 创造力，想象力。
And it wasn't until I started writing things 直到我开始自发地写东西，
spontaneously and seeing that they kept reverting 看到它们不断地回到
to what had happened to me in childhood, 我童年时发生的事情，
that it became more of a memoir. 它才更像是一本回忆录。
The past was always present in our lives. 过去总是浮现在我们的生活中。
Remember that test I told you about, 还记得，我跟你们说过的那个测试吗，
the one that predicted I was going to be a doctor? 那个预测我将来会成为医生的测试?
It wasn't until, like,three years ago that I said, 直到大概三年前我才问，
what was that test anyway? 那到底是什么测试?
That was so irresponsible for a woman to give a child 一个女人只给孩子做了一次测试，就说她将来会成为
one test and then say she was gonna be a doctor. 一名医生，这太不负责任了。
Why hadn't I questioned it before? 为什么我以前没有质疑过它?
That couldn't be the case. 这说明不了什么的。
So I typed in "1958 Oakland first grade longitudinal IQ." 所以我输入了"1958年奥克兰一年级小学生智商纵向趋势"
And the first thing that came up 首先出现的是
was a study by a woman named Dolores Durkin, 一个叫多罗丽丝.杜尔京的女人做的一项研究，
out of 5,003 students who enrolled 在那年入学的5003名
in the first grade that year, 一年级学生中，
49 of them were found to be able to read. 有49人被发现，只能读懂早期书画绘本。
I was an early reader. 我就是一名只能读懂早期书画绘本的人。
There I was in my bedroom reading this, 我在卧室里读着这篇文章，
and it was 63 years of self-esteem in front of me 这个63年前的自信心，摆在了我面前，
and it had been a lie,it was based on a lie. 这是一个谎言，它建立在一个谎言之上。
It had nothing to do with whether 这与我是否聪明到
I was smart enough to be a doctor 可以成为一名医生无关，
and my thinking I never was smart enough. 也与我认为自己，从来都不够聪明无关。
I continued to read, 我接着读下去，
and she had five interviews in there with parents. 她和被测试儿童的家长们见了五次面。
My father said 我的父亲说过，
that I had always been a scribbler, 我的一直都喜欢信手涂鸦，
and that even before the age of four, 甚至在四岁之前，
I enjoyed drawing pictures 我就喜欢画画，
and making up stories about them. 还把它们都编成了故事。
"Her imagination was amazing," my father said. “她的想象力很惊人，”父亲说。
And there I had it. 看来，我确实如此。
After all those years of being told 这么多年来，我一直被告知
I was going to be a doctor,to read that my father said, 是块儿做医生的材料，当读到父亲说的，
I had an amazing imagination made me cry, 我有惊人的想象力，这让我哭了，
and that was only recently that I read that, that I saw that. 直到最近我才读到这句话，我才看到这句话。
I read your second memoir,Where the Past Begins, 我读了你的第二本回忆录《过去的起点》，
And I wondered,was that easier to write 我在想知道，写这本书会比写小说
than a novel or harder? 容易还是更难?
At the end of each day,when I was done writing, 每天结束的时候，当我写完，
my husband,he'd have dinner waiting, 我的丈夫，他会等着吃晚饭，
ten o'clock at night,I'd go up there, 晚上十点钟的时候，我会去那里，
and I would be shaking because of what 我会因为我刚刚写完的东西
I had just finished writing. 而颤抖不止。
So I did that once a week 所以我每周做一次，
for about four months,and then I had a book. 坚持了大约四个月，然后我写成了一本书。
It was the fastest book I've ever written. 这是我写得最快的一本书。
It was the most emotionally eviscerating book 这是我写过的在情感上，最撕心裂肺的
I've ever written. 一本书。
And I think it is the reason why I have 我想这就是我现在写作时
a really hard time now writing, 很困难的原因，
because I'm actually rather afraid 因为我真的很害怕
to have that experience happen to me again. 那种经历再次发生在我身上。
"My childhood, with topsy turvy emotions, “我的童年时乱七八糟的情绪，
has, in fact, been a reason to write." 事实上，成了我写作的原因。”
"I can lay it out squarely on the page and see what it was." “我白纸黑字地写出来，好看看它们到底是什么。”
"I can understand it and see the patterns." “我能理解它，懂得它的方式。”
"My characters are witness to what I went through." “我的创作的角色，见证了我所经历的一切。”
"And each story we are untangling “每一个故事，我们都是在解开
a knot in a huge matted mess." 一团乱麻中的一个结。”
"The work of undoing them one at a time “每次纾解一个故事
is the most gratifying part of writing, 是写作中最令人满意的部分，
but the mess will always be there." 但杂乱还总是在那里。”
She's at a point where 她现在想要
she would like to continue to be a writer, 继续做一名作家，
but she's also thinking about not having 但她也在考虑不要让
a publishing contract hanging over her head. 出版合同悬在她的头上。
And she does have one more book under contract. 而且她还有一本书在合约期内。
And I think that the writer's block element to 我认为，如果释放作家在
all of this would free up 写作时阻力因素，
if she were able to complete that 如果她能凭借灵感去
and then felt an inspiration 完成一件作品，
to write something without feeling 而不是靠什么受商业限制的
the added pressure 外加压力，
of a business obligation to do so. 去写一些东西。
Oh, they're fighting. 哦，他们在争斗。
In 2016, I started to draw 2016年，我开始画
what I saw out the window, 我在窗外看到的东西，
and I realized that, you know, 我意识到，你知道，
it was bringing up this love that I always had for drawing. 这唤起了我对绘画一直以来的热爱。
Tried, 经过试验，
Some of these are incomplete. 有些是不完整的。
I have a lot of false starts. 我有很多错误的开始。
You start something and then forgot all about it. 你开始做一件事，然后就把它忘得一干二净。
If I could simply do what I wanted to do 如果我可以在一个月里整天
all day for a month, 做我想做的事，
all I would do is look at birds and draw. 我所要做的就是观察鸟类和画画。
I don't have anyone expecting me 没人期待我
to produce anything. 能做出什么。
And in fact, when somebody says to me, 事实上，当有人对我说，
"Can you draw me a bird," “你能给我画一只鸟吗?”
like my publisher did. 就像我的出版商那样。
And I said, "Sure." 我说:“当然。“
And then I couldn't draw him a bird. 然后我就不能给他画鸟了。
And I realized that was a part of it. 我意识到这是其中的一部分。
The freedom to do what I enjoyed 随心所欲的自由
had to come with no expectations 没有任何期望，
and that I did it only for myself. 我只是为自己而做。
I joined a Nature Journal Group. 我加入了一个自然杂志小组。
I would post things. 我加入了一个自然杂志小组。
I would post my mistakes even. 我甚至会把我的错误贴出来。
It was good exercise 这是一种很好的练习，
to say I didn't have to be perfect. 告诉别人，我不必完美。
It's not just powers of observation, 这不仅仅是对细节和行为的
of details and behavior, 观察的能力，
it's wonder,it's wonderment, you know, 这是好奇，是惊奇，
because when you look at these things, 因为当你在看这些东西的时候，
you wonder how...how this is possible. 你会好奇，这个...是怎么可能的。
How did... why is this bird on this branch? 怎么会...为什么这些鸟在树枝上？
What is, you know,the behavior? 你就想知道，这些行为是什么？
What... why is it doing this? 怎么...为什么要这么做？
And allowing no answers 别想有答案
and just saying you just have to observe it 也就是你只需观察这些，
and be in wonder the whole time. 并同时不断发出惊讶。
Oh, that one. 哦，看那只。
There's so many there,and I just... 那里还有很多，我只是...
it's not completely exact. 这并不完全准确。
Yes. 是的。
"Spontaneous epiphanies always leave me convinced “自发的顿悟总是让我再次相信，
once again that there is no greater meaning 没有什么比我写作时发生的事情
to my life than what happens when I write." 对我的生活更有意义了。”
"It gives me awareness so sharp it punctures “它给了我敏锐的意识，用来刺穿所有
all layers of thought so that I can rise." 思想上包裹面层，所以我可以上升。”
"That's what it feels like, “这就是感觉，
a weightless rising to a view high enough 失重般地上升到足够高的地方，
to survey the moments of the past that led to this one." 审视过去的时刻，导致了这一刻。”
"Too soon,that feeling dissipates, “太快了，那种感觉的消失，
and I am hanging on to contrails as I come back 一旦我要回到思维的正常状态，我会紧紧抓住
down to a normal state of mind." 住那种感觉的留下的航迹云。”
"Has my imagination worked this way since birth?" “我的想象力从出生起，就是这样起作用的吗?”
"What enables me to draw a bird that looks like a bird?" “是什么让我能画出一只，看起来像鸟的鸟?”
"When did I start noticing “我什么时候开始注意到
that one thing is emotionally like another?" 一件事在情感上很像另一件事?”
"When did emotion and imagery “情感和意象从什么时候
start colluding with velvety sharks?" 开始与柔软的鲨鱼勾结起来的?”
"Whatever imagination is,I'm grateful for “不管想象力是什么，我都很感激
its elasticity and willingness 它的灵活性和
to accommodate whatever comes along, 适应任何事情的意愿，
for giving me flotillas of imagery 它让我的大脑有了一系列的意象，
circumnavigating a brain that finds emotional resonance 几乎能在任何事情上
"in almost anything." 找到情感共鸣。”
"I just have to let go of self-consciousness “我只需要放开自我意识，
for it to spill out freely, 让它自由地溢出来，
"as if all I am doing is listening to music." 就好像我所做的一切都是在听音乐。”
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字幕翻译：hardstick 校订：hardstick 时间轴：hardstick